Member Rad… Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 This topic was imported from the Typophile platform Would it be a bad idea to set a 96 page book that's maybe 50% photos in Frutiger next? 10pt/14pt Link to comment
Member Nic… Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 From Paul Rand, A Designer's Art, a book with lots of images (and white space) set in Univers Bold as body face. Link to comment
Member Wil… Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'd think it would depend on the nature of the photographs. Also something to look out for is whether the weight of sans is too light for comfortable reading on shiny coated paper, which art books usually are printed on. Also you should note that Frutiger had problems with Frutiger Next. Neue Frutiger is the one he did, together with Akira Kobayashi, that has his approval. Link to comment
Member Rad… Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Thanks for the photo Nick, I like the idea of using bold. Do you think its a good idea if their is not much white space on the page? The photos are actually not on the same page as the text, they are at the end of each chapter. The reason I mentioned the photos(B&W) was to point out that their is not much text, so using a sans serif shouldn't be a problem, even though I think, if given enough leading, sans serif is fine for long text even though most typographers(more experienced than me) keep telling me that serifs are better for long texts, I just don't see it. William I will definitely rethink the Frutiger Next, maybe it's worth buying the Neue Frutiger or even using Univers. Link to comment
Member eat… Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 William, you mentioned that Frutiger had problems with Next. Care to elaborate? I’m curious. Link to comment
Member hra… Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I would feel unloved as a reader of a long text in a sans. Although I guess with such a high proportion of images it's not possible to get immersed in the text anyway. hhp Link to comment
Member Ber… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 >> Neue Prutiger ‘Prut’ is a nice Dutch word for ‘sh*t‘… Something Freudian going on here, William? : ) Link to comment
Member Wil… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 See pages 259-260 of Adrian Frutiger Typefaces: The Complete Works. He explains his unhappiness particularly with the cursive in Frutiger Next, which he didn't draw. He was against doing it, as he thought it was out of character with the roman. After that book was published, Frutiger was able to redo it 'his way' with the assistance of Akira Kobayashi, in Neue Frutiger. This not only changed the cursive to a sloped roman, but also changed the range of weights, and corrected compromises that were done earlier because of the system of fixed units in Linotype film. Link to comment
Member Wil… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Bert, funny, but I doubt it's 'Freudian' as I don't know Dutch. Now corrected. I do think that the typeface Frutiger is one of the best and most influential of the past 50 years. Link to comment
Member hra… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 > I don't know Dutch. Your subconscious does. ;-) In my book, Frutiger was fine when it came out. Now it's dorky. hhp Link to comment
Member Ber… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I love Frutiger. Used it a lot on Linotype, esp. for job ads and such, in de eighties and early nineties. The best thing about it was that is stood up to a bit of stretching etcetera, which helped a lot in copyfitting. Link to comment
Member eat… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 He explains his unhappiness particularly with the cursive in Frutiger Next, which he didn't draw. He was against doing it, as he thought it was out of character with the roman. That’s interesting, because the true italics were the main reason I wanted to try using Next in a recent project, to set speech quotes. I don’t own a copy, however, and ended up using the vanilla flavour instead. Link to comment
Member Nic… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Rather than true, I’ve always considered the Frutiger Next italic to be a travesty. Optima Nova likewise. Link to comment
Member Wil… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Frutiger evidently felt the same way as Nick. There is a heartbreaking paragraph in the book in which Frutiger is tormented by the thought that Frutiger Next might ultimately damage his reputation. That's why I'm happy that he was able to do Neue Frutiger. To me Optima Nova is a different story. I think Zapf guided this, at least the regular width styles, and you can argue under what circumstances it might be better or worse than the original. But I agree with Nick when it comes to the condensed styles—a travesty. Link to comment
Member hra… Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 > a heartbreaking paragraph What cloying melodrama - get a spine, people. The usefulness of a font goes beyond what the designer wants. A good example is Treacy's Arrow typeface: he started with a slanted-Roman, and when he eventually replaced it with a so-called "true" Italic his clients clamored for the original dorky version, and he duly obliged (nicely ending up with two Italics). Optima Nova: I like it. The new "a" alone is nice proof of a courageous desire for improvement. hhp Link to comment
Member Si_… Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 >What cloying melodrama - get a spine, people. The usefulness of a font goes beyond what the designer wants. Sure, but I think when the font uses your own name then you should be allowed to make the call on such improvements. Also in the case of Frutiger there are myriad other alternatives if you want a cursive italic. :-) Link to comment
Member hra… Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 OK, I'll start working on "Hrant'sFontNumber23". hhp Link to comment
Member Nic… Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 M. Frutiger was lucky/smart that his eponymous typeface is one of his best. Carter Sans is no such thing, it is Carter Incised; the real Carter Sans is Verdana. Link to comment
Member Wil… Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Frutiger writes "My masterpiece is Univers, but my favourite typeface—if I'm being honest—is the original Frutiger. It's probably the typeface that holds the middle ground of the type landscape. It's like a nail that been driven in, and on which you can hang everything. It corresponds, most likely to my internal image, comparable with what I feel in the works of my favorite artist, Constantin Brâncuşi. It is a typeface that really is beautiful, one that sings." Link to comment
Member hra… Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 > the real Carter Sans is Verdana. I don't see that. hhp Link to comment
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