Member rus… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 This topic was imported from the Typophile platform Link posted on Design Observer. NY Times article about the design process for New York World Trade Center memorial. In the end, the designers decided that cut-out letters would work best for rubbings and could be effectively back-lit at night. (The typeface they chose, Optima, was designed by Hermann Zapf in 1958.) Raised letters will indicate categories like Flight 11, North Tower or Engine Company 10. Even an element so minute had a meaningful consequence. “A big part of the whole issue are the rubbings that people will want to take of the names,” Mr. Rogér said. “That was something we never wanted to lose.” [NY Times] Link to comment
Member alu… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Rubbings seem to be a pre-camera-in-cell-phone thing. But perhaps it's still the tangible preference. Link to comment
Member rus… Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 There's the tactile aspect of a rubbing, but I don't think it would have occured to many people to to make a rubbing without the suggestion that they may want to do it. As they come "out of the box" the edges of cut metal letters will chew your average piece of cartage paper to bits, -=®=- Link to comment
Member Pla… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I think for families of the victims that had nothing physical to bury (most were empty coffins with mementos inside) this might finally be something tangible and connecting. Link to comment
Member Si_… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Optima proved itself in 'Nam. Good choice IMHO. Link to comment
Member phr… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 So is there something wrong with using Optima? Maybe I just missed something. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...from the Fontry Link to comment
Member chr… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Having been to the Vietnam Memorial in DC several times, it is safe to say that victims' families will take rubbings at least as often as they take cell phone photos. Link to comment
Member mic… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I agree with sii. Though some may say an American face should have been chosen (Gotham, for example, or any of the myriad others [no, not that Myriad]), I think Optima has an arguably American feel to it. But more importantly, why "seriously?" in regard to Optima? Sure it's overused, happens to be a system font, and lots of other appropriate faces could have been used, but really, this is a great example of the right tool for the job (which, after all, is one of the tenets of good typography). Link to comment
Member rus… Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 There is nothing "wrong" with Optima, in the same way there is nothing wrong with many other possible choices, but, it is somewhat overused and cliche in this type of project, and I do think that does count for something. IM(always)HO :o) If I was being too cute with the title, I apologize. -=®=- Link to comment
Member rus… Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Out of curiosity, regarding rubbings at the Vietnam Memorial, how large are the letters, what do people use to make the impressions and how kind are the letters to the paper that people use. There really is something about a rubbing that a cell phone pic just can't bring. -=®=- Link to comment
Member Si_… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I googled a few pics using live search - some of these images indicate the scale... http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=vietnam+memorial also http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=vietnam+memorial+rubbing Link to comment
Member Ric… Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I was quite moved when, on my first visit to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in D.C., I saw a man touching someone's name on the wall. Plaidjaney's comment about families finally having something tangible is spot-on. Also, Optima may seem clichéd and overused to many typomaniacs, but that doesn't make it a bad choice. The intended audience is everybody (i.e., the general public, not just typophiles), and the face is a dignified-looking choice for a memorial. Link to comment
Member Dav… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Optima is a wonderful typeface, and a great choice. Let's not forget that its origins are on a gravestone in an italian church. dr Link to comment
Member Ric… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I didn't know that, David. Thanks for the info. Link to comment
Member ken… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I thought the inspiration was inscriptions at Santa Croce, not gravestones. I suppose those inscriptions are likely to be memorial. And maybe David's use of the term "gravestones" is just a translation thing, but it conjures up a different image in my mind, here in New England. Link to comment
Member Qui… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Like I commented on the MyFonts blog post about this subject, I would probably commission a custom typeface for the monument. It seems to me something unique would be perfect for it. Link to comment
Member phr… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Considering that the decision was done by a committee, Optima is probably a wonderful choice. If they had waited on a committee to commission a custom font they might never get done. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...from the Fontry Link to comment
Member Dav… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Gravestones, as in "a big piece of stone with inscriptions on it, placed above a hole inside of which lays a coffin with a dead person inside", in Santa Croce. Am I translating wrong? dr Link to comment
Member Dav… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 You might find these 2 docs interesting: first is a photo of the interior of Santa Croce Basilica (in Firenze), and on the floor, you can see the gravestone (in Roman churches, it is a very common view to see gravestones of important people on the very floor of the church; most of the time an early priest, William the Conqueror on the floor of Abbaye aux Hommes in Caen / Normandy, Grace Kelly in Monaco, etc). On the second photo, you'll see a close-up of the gravestone. That's THIS gravestone Hermann Zapf used to design Optima. By looking at the letters, one can understand the genius of Zapf - Optima is quite different and refined IMHO. dr Link to comment
Member Wil… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The caps of Optima are great on the Viet Nam memorial. The lower case, which is also great in my opinion, has a certain delicacy that a caps-only use does not. So caps-only has a somewhat different character, giving more strength and gravity. Link to comment
Member Dan… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thank you David R! I've heard Bringhurst speak about that very spot when he spoke one time, and I've always wanted a chance to see it. Looking at those letterforms, I'd almost want to see something MORE like what is on the floor. Link to comment
Member ken… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 No, you're right, David. My mistake. "Gravestone" would indeed be an apt term. I hadn't been in Santa Croce and had imagined, from the accounts I'd read previously, a different part of the church -- for instance, an inscription above the apse or something. Thanks for the wonderful photos. Link to comment
Member jlt… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Beorcana. --- http://www.hewnandhammered.com Link to comment
Member Qui… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 > Considering that the decision was done by a committee, Optima is probably a wonderful choice. If they had waited on a committee to commission a custom font they might never get done.Considering that the decision was done by a committee, Optima is probably a wonderful choice. If they had waited on a committee to commission a custom font they might never get done. Well, considering they have already been at it for like 8 years, another year or so isn't really a problem... Link to comment
Member Si_… Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I think if they'd gone with a custom font, one that was paid market-rate for, there would have likely been an outcry in the press - see this in the UK from time to time when government agencies pay for custom type. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1025876/Taxpayers-face-50-000-Br... Link to comment
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