Are you calling José Mendoza & Almeida a rip-off artist? And a poor craftsman? I hope some of his students are around to put you in your place.

Pascal's caps are indeed uncomfortably close to Optima's, but luckily most text is lc, and there there's very little similarity. Pascal is vigorous, sincere and cheerful, with a glimmer in the eye. Optima is staid - too gray. It's over the hill, and the brakes are failing.

I own a case of Pascal in two sizes. I wouldn't spend a dime on Optima.

hhp

Not this version!

I corresponded with Jose for many years... I think this is a weak version. I have always liked Pascal. Never had a problem with it. This digital version bothers me! Wasn't speaking of the original.

See my article on him in Scripsit.
Michael

Your point now that I have clarified?

P.s. His work is framed all over my studio.

Michael

Your back-paddling is quite noisy.

Clarified? No need for that - I've know exactly
where you're coming from for a while now.

--

The best thing about all these Zapf revivals? Kobayashi.
http://typographica.org/001103.php#palatino-sans-fonts

hhp

Palatino rocks and can work with Optima depending on where its used. Univers is a good looking sans but may be more like Helvetica than optima in some ways?

I would recommend the film Helvetica to Michael and anyone else interested in type whether you like the Helvetica font family or not. It has some interesting interviews with some very accomplished type and graphic designers. Some who actually detest Helvetica.

Hrant

That would be "peddling"! And you have no clue where I am coming from until you give up the keyboard and try your hand at the pen. That would be humbling. Go ahead and cast baseless aspersions. Aren't you the one who deplores that... oh it is only when it suits you and your agenda!

Michael

Michael, the movie is really a history of graphic design in the past half century, and a delightful movie. I recommend just fast forwarding through the Helvetica bits :)

Also in an earlier discussion of Optima, I thought John Hudson had a good point that Optima Nova may be better for text and the original Optima better for display.

I don't know about Optima for text altogether, but it's a great display face. It has a very distinctive look, and is out of place in many settings, but that is true of all great display faces. So I don't get the Optima hatred.

Geoffery

Technically it is a sans.. it only intimates serifs. They are not there. It is the waisting that accentuates this optical illusion.

And I am sorry this turned nasty. You have my recommendations and I am done.

Yes William I am stepping back from the ledge : )

Michael

William, it's not hate, just strong unease, or even a bit of revulsion. Optima is like those old women who think they're still god's gift to society. They take on airs, and fan the dying embers of old men who want to remember, want to forget. It might be human, but it's also a weakness and not something to celebrate blindly. Somebody -preferably a close friend- should tell the old hag to start acting her age already.

hhp

"fan the dying embers of old men who want to remember, want to forget"

Damn, Hrant, that's good. Do you write poetry? You should. Seriously.

NO I am not done yet!

"I’ve know exactly where you’re coming from for a while now."

How condescending is that statement. You are better than me? Your opinions carry more weight? You think you are the end all critic?Yours should be the only opinion that counts? No room for other points of view? You pick and criticize constantly... just when do you allow for others opinions instead of jumping in with jabs at an honest discussion. I was simply trying to add some information and you came in with negativity.

Michael

BTW
Publica, a typeface designed by Karl-Heinz Lange for Typoart http://www.typografie.info/typowiki/index.php?title=Publica ?

Get a room you two.

@Thomas (Poms): Here’s a little story about the origination of Publica.

Yes Florian i've seen this thread before … and forgot it – i'm looking forward what the upcoming digital versions/- interpretations of some of the Typoart typefaces will be. I'm curious about the releases!

Hmm..I thought we were discussing the finer points of Optima and it's readability. Oh well. having looked at the sample of Optima Nova (thanks E. Scrooge!) I'm still not convinced. It looks to me like a a case of student typography. Incidently, I'm guilty of such a mistake in school. I blame it on the lack of fonts available on the machine I was using:P

"I thought we were discussing the finer points of Optima and it’s readability."

We are, but me and Hrant just have issues : )

Michael

Yehan—you have to see it in print. That's where it really shines.

haha..alright Michael..

fguimaraes, fair enough... Does anyone know of a book set in Optima? I don't have Optima Nova, but I guess I could try setting a bunch of text first in the old version.

Issues? We share none that I've noticed.

Finer points? I'll be sure to let you know if I see any...
(Anybody who is in fact more interested in learning than
merely yakking should start by perusing the archives.)

hhp

@Michael

it has been a couple off post back, but there is something as "to much character" especially in text fonts, that character should not influence the message that is communicated. (reading comes first, beauty comes second)

and there is no need for apologies, everyone is intitled to his/her own opinion