Frutiger for body doesn't feel right – is it technically?

[Lovjo]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

Is Frutiger (regular) a wise, functional and estetical choice to use for body copy in a combination with Adobe Garamond Pro (semibold) for headlines?

I work with graphic design at one of the oldest swedish universities and recently the university has updated its graphic profile with the help from a local ad agency. This new type combination – it's actually just been reversed, Frutiger was used for display before – is supposed to be used in all communication material (ads, posters, brochures, magazines etc). There is nothing wrong with Frutiger but in longer texts and in smaller measures – it's just really hard to read even if the leading is spacious.

[Si_Daniels]

You are right and the "ad agency" was wrong.

[Don McCahill]

Don't feel bad. For several years my college had a designer infatuated with Century Gothic, and as a result it was used for body copy, often in ridiculously small sizes on all materials.

Then someone realized that all these things we were paying to have printed would be much more effective if people could actually read them.

I hope it doesn't take your school as long to learn.

[McBain_v1]

I thought that I had read that Matthew Butterick sees Frutiger as a possible body text choice - granted for legal documents only - but even so... is it really that bad? What would you suggest in its place?

[Nick Shinn]

Memo to Monotype:
Product extension:
Frutiger Book.

[William Berkson]

I think Neue Frutiger changed the 'normal' weight to make it better in text. I don't think any sans is good for really extended text, but Frutiger is good for small doses of text.

[Lovjo]

Thanks for the input!

If not Frutiger, what else? Yes, Neue Frutiger might be a choice, since it has a Book weight. But then I'm not sure since I traditionally prefer serifs in body (that is in extended texts).

I feel that this whole updating process and the result of it regarding Frutiger is about being trendy and following the recommendations from and ad agency. The given explanation has been "as long as you can read it", " it's not that bad" and "our own scientists says so" (and who can argue with them?) rather than looking at why Frutiger is the best choice from a typographic and legible point of view. Of course you can read it, but again, is it the best choice in the long run?

Talking about trends, maybe they should have replaced the fonts with something entirely new, like something Scandinavian or even Swedish? Berling Nova is a personal favorite. And when it's time for a new update of the graphic profile, I promise, I will be even more prepared.

Thanks again for the comments =)

[hrant]

Yes, don't use Frutiger (or any sans) for a lot of text.
Legal documents are a special case... :-)

See if Legato works for you.

hhp

[ncaleffi]

With the risk of sounding at odds with the general opinions expressed here, I think that Frutiger can work nicely in long text settings - say, in a magazine environment. Nonetheless, What Lovisa Jones says about the look of the roman weight is true - it can be too dense on the page (same goes for Gill Sans, in my opinion). One alternative could be using Frutiger Light, rightly spaced and leaded, at 9 or 10 points, if the printer's black is a real black. The pairing with Adobe Garamond also looks interesting to me.

[Nick Shinn]

Many magazines have sans as the main body or secondary body text.
Take a look through the news stand and see what kind of setting you think is effective, and why.

[hrant]

Magazines aren't known/made for heavy reading though.
This is for a university.

hhp

[JamesM]

Keep in mind that many university publications are relatively short (posters, brochures, etc). There are some exceptions, of course, such as magazines and course catalogs, but a lot of pieces are fairly small.

[hrant]

But if they want to use one typeface for as much
as possible -which, since it's a university will likely
include long academic pieces- then you're in trouble.

Maybe find a very close serif companion to Frutiger
and use Frutiger or the serif depending on the situation.

hhp

[brianskywalker]

Yes, perhaps Frutiger Serif would be a close enough companion for Frutiger.

[hrant]

It's worth a shot.
Although there's a reason "Frutiger Serif" was not the design's original name...

hhp

[theplatypus]

I don't hate it. Can you post up examples that are making your eyes cross?
Village's Galaxie Polaris is quite nice for a read. PRINT magazine seems to think so, too. Still one of my favorites!

[brianskywalker]

Although there's a reason "Frutiger Serif" was not the design's original name...

Sure, but Frutiger Serif not only fits Frutiger's proportions, it is also closer to to Meriden's original metal proportions. The structure is also in general close to Frutiger, although the italic in Frutiger (Sans) should really have changed structure the same way that Meriden does. Or at least closer to that.

But they do have a quite different feel, despite a somewhat similar structure and system of proportion.