Gameloft used a fan copy/mod of existing copyrighted/commercial font in an upcoming game

[Ryan Maelhorn]

Did you even watch the Youtube video? I have zero reason to make anything up here.

[hrant]

It's not about dishonesty; it's about interpretation, but also rigor.

Can you really compare an individual's font openly based on lettering from 50 years ago to a corporation's font covertly derived from a recent actual font?

hhp

[hrant]

No, not the same at all.

hhp

[Ryan Maelhorn]

Wow, not at all, huh? Wow.

[Ryan Maelhorn]

I don't condone what Gameloft is doing, not at all, they can go F themselves. I just wonder why Harold's Fonts isn't also guilty of the same crime.

I also don't think just openly admitting to doing something makes it all OK. I mean if someone goes out and beats someone up, is it really all OK as long as they admit to doing it?

[Khaled Hosny]

Either all type designers are plagiarists by extension, or there is no such a thing as plagiarism in type design, anything else is just hypocrisy.

[Thomas Phinney]

No, anything else implies that the real world is more complicated than some sort of absolutist there-are-only-two-colors-in-the-universe POV.

But I agree with Hrant that there is a big difference between making a typeface inspired by a small sample of hand-lettering used in a film, and making a typeface that is “trying to ape an existing commercial font” (that's a quote from the designer of Celestia Medium, when he pulled the font from distribution because he became convinced doing a knockoff of Generation B was wrong: see http://purpletinker.deviantart.com/art/Celestia-Medium-pony-font-1-5-204...).

[Khaled Hosny]

She pulled the font after someone started a crusade of FUD campaigns on her, if she thought it was wrong she wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

Type designers just like to think they are special, every thing they do is a creation, unique, something the world have never seen and will never see, may be with some little, very little and insignificant inspirations, but plagiarists, those infidels how dare they imitate the creations of gods, lets FUD them to death.

[hrant]

Khaled, you really think what the designer of Generation B did was as bad as what the designer of Celestia Medium did? And do you really think Gameloft and Hasbro are innocent? BTW personally I would attack the companies before I would attack the designer because that could change things on a much larger scale.

Lumping inspiration and plagiarism together seems like an excuse to feel better about the latter, which usually happens by people who suck at the former.

hhp

[oldnick]

Well, Hasbro treated me pretty well. They commissioned a special version of Boyz R Gross NF, with Turkish and Greek characters—the latter of which were a trip, since I had never done it before…

BTW, any thoughts on this?

http://www.typophile.com/node/98032

[cerulean]

"Type designers just like to think" that their time, effort and expertise has value with which they should be able to make some of their living, which is perfectly reasonable and does not deserve such obnoxious hyperbole. Everything is a remix, but time and respect make worlds of difference. When Todd Goldman traces the work of relatively obscure living cartoonists and sells uncredited, unlicensed T-shirts of it at Hot Topic, we should not pretend that this is equivalent to John Williams echoing Gustav Holst in his score for Star Wars. There is a continuum between homage and ripoff, and the dividing line of what's acceptable is fuzzy but not extremely so.

[oldnick]

the dividing line of what's acceptable is fuzzy but not extremely so

Have you considered one of those Lint Removers? IMHO, they work pretty well…

BTW, any fuzzy thoughts on this?

http://www.typophile.com/node/98032

[hrant]

Nick, Hasbro probably has no clue what went on, and they'd rather not care. The higher up you go the less they [want to] know about details but the more power they have to change them.

Kevin, well stated.

hhp

[oldnick]

Hrant—

The “higher up” thing is indubitably true. Evidently, my local sheriff would rather not know about the Independent Contractors working in his department. Either that, or he would prefer that the voters of this county not know…

Just sayin’…

[JamesM]

Inspiration is different from plagiarism. All artists and designers are influenced by the work of others. But inspiration becomes plagiarism when you simply make a copy of someone else's work.

[Khaled Hosny]

Khaled, you really think what the designer of Generation B did was as bad as what the designer of Celestia Medium did?

No, I think they are as fine.

Lumping inspiration and plagiarism together seems like an excuse to feel better about the latter

So when inspiration ends and palgirism starts, when it it is 50%, 60%, less than 50 years old, less than 40?

But inspiration becomes plagiarism when you simply make a copy of someone else's work.

That is called copyright infringement, which is not the case here.

Fonts are not forms of art, type design is not an art, it is a craft, if type designers think they are artists they can go paint something.

[hrant]

Those are very shallow questions and views.

hhp

[aluminum]

"Many game companies are under a lot of economic stress because the rise of small game apps for smart phones and tablets"

True, but it's also true that game companies have a long track record of being a) cheap in general and b) really bad people to work for.

[whoiam989]

Sorry for late response, but I was busy with school works and other factors.

Apparently, there are ongoing criticisms about this game regarding its economy system. But that's another problem.

I saw someone intervened in this thread with debate on originality, inspiration and plagiarism. At first, I couldn't decide which side I should take. Now, at least one thing is clear: We can tell whether it is a rip-off, knock-off, plagiarism, copyright infringement, parody or homage by looking closely at it and finding its background and context.

I may have missed a chance to comment, but I think Diner, oldnick, hrant, cerulean, Thomas Phinney and JamesM can get together to think about how to convince Hasbro and Gameloft to solve this problem. I'm going to send Diner's (official?) complaint to major fan news blogs, but how can I publicise this issue months after the games release? Please give me some advice.

Happy New Year, everyone!

[quadibloc]

Given the description of the situation in the initial post, I'm surprised to learn in a later post that Gameloft did not do anything actionable.

That implies, at the very least, that the font they are using is not a mod of the font from Harold's fonts in question; that it's freshly drawn, even if it closely resembles the other font. Font software is well protected by copyright law, even if font designs are only weakly protected in the U.S. (as opposed to not protected at all: there were changes in the law recently).

However, on re-reading the thread, it appears that Gameloft ought to be in deep trouble with Hasbro, because they've licensed the My Little Pony product, and they're not appropriately protecting its brand identity; by not using the official font specified, they're making a licensed product that is not, in this one respect, however minor, differentiated from what a knock-off counterfeiter could do.

And that would remain true even if Celestia Medium Redux is an entirely legitimate typeface in the same genre as Generation B, and not a rip-off or plagiarism.

Now, there's also the question of violating the trademark of the original Celestia Medium, as it may not have been withdrawn long enough ago for it to be inactive...

[JamesM]

> it appears that Gameloft ought to be in deep trouble with
> Hasbro, because they've ... not using the official font specified

The licensing agreement undoubtedly gave Hasbro opportunities to view the game at certain milestones during development and during beta testing, to protect their interests. If the knock-off font was close enough that Hasbro didn't notice and object before the game's release, they'd have a hard time making the case that consumers (mostly children) would notice it.

[HVB]

Where does Neale Davidson's "Equestria" fit into all this?

[charles_e]

Those are very shallow questions and views.

Really hhp? Try Googling

museum exhibits of typefaces

Very few hits. I get more with my name, or your name. Not at all like Googling "American Impressionist art exhibitions."

In fact, I got more hits with

museum exhibits of roller skates

Khaled is not being shallow, he's giving the truth, as upsetting as you may find it.

[hrant]

What makes you think I like museums? MoMA can stuff it.

If you'd been paying attention you'd realize that I've railed against "artiste" type designers more than anybody else here.

Khaled I suspect tries to find a Hosni Mubarak in every corner (nevermind that democracy is for peons). You probably have a bugbear (or three) as well since you read into what Khaled wrote whatever you needed to attack me. Go read it again after you tame your emotions. Upset, he says. I'm feeling virtually nothing.

hhp

[5star]

These days my favorite word that I read type designers use with impunity is ... revival.

And these same type designers have the nerve to attach a EULA to their ... revival.

:)

Democracy rulz!!!

n.