iTunes 11.0 and Helvetica

[Chris Dean]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

iTunes 11.0 uses Helvetica for its user interface. Cast your vote:

1 = Strongly dislike
2 = Dislike
3 = Neutral
4 = Like
5 = Strongly like

[JamesM]

But on the positive side the interface is cleaner now and it seems faster.

[Chris Dean]

Do you have a numerical vote?

[Typogruffer]

Just installed iTunes on windows. I stopped using it when it became very slow and the audio quality sucked. I like the new interface(But I don't think it uses Helvetica on windows). I would give a 4. I like Zune interface but the fonts suck.

[Stephen Coles]

2

[russellm]

my vote has to be 3.
... Helvetica being so completely neutral

[eliason]

2

[JamesM]

I'll give it a 3. Normally I don't care for Helvetica much as it seems dated and overused, but in this case — perhaps it's the small point size — it doesn't bother me.

[Chris Dean]

I honestly aim to share these results with Apple. How hard could it be to give the user the ability to select from a few different typefaces? Helvetica? Really? Just when we thought it had gone away, BAM! there it is, every time I want listen to Beethoven. In Helvetica. *sigh*

If you’re on twitter, tweet this thread.

[Nick Shinn]

Be careful what you wish for.
Just as the software decides which genre a particular piece of music belongs to, it may well one day decide on a style of type for that genre. You would no doubt get Beethoven in Garamond or Perpetua, rather than Walbaum.

(Segueway to discussion of “original instruments”…)

[Chris Dean]

*chuckle* Very good one Nick. Feeling a little blue today. Thanks for the good laugh.

[JamesM]

> I honestly aim to share these results with Apple.

That's fine, but it'll probably be added to some master list of iTunes complaints, which will then be ranked by number of complaints, and font complaints will be at the bottom of the list.

You might have better luck if you send a letter directly to Jony Ive, who's now in charge of interface design. Don't know if he'd ever actually read it, but he's the guy you'd want to influence.

[Chris Dean]

Is Jony Ive in charge of UI for itunes, or UI for apple in general. Not familiar with the name.

[JamesM]

Jonathan "Jony" Ives is the Vice President of Industrial Design. For many years he's been responsible for the design of their hardware (iMacs, iPods, iPads, etc), but software interfaces were handled in another department run by VP Scott Forstall.

After Forstall got the boot a few weeks ago, Ives was put in charge of interface design. So now he'll control both product design and interface design. The choice of Helvetica was undoubtedly made under Forstall's watch, but Ives will control future font decisions.

http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/jonathan-ive.html

[hrant]

Isn't Ive the guy who pushed through the defective external antenna? Talk about form over function... And you want him to worry about proper font choice?

But Chris, really, nobody at Apple gives a hoot about this survey. They made Chalkboard for chrissake.

Plus music is over-rated. And don't get me started on lyrics.

hhp

[JamesM]

Hrant, we don't know if Ives was even aware of that technical problem prior to product release. In any event, he should be judged by his total body of work, which is amazing and award-winning.

[Chris Dean]

@Nick: Specifically Piano Sonata No. 8. I used to be able to play this as a teenager. Stoping playing piano was probably the dumbest decision I ever made. That, and starting to smoke in junior-high because I thought it would make me “popular.” Whever the f*** that means…

And if I seem grumpy lately/in the near future it’s because I’m trying to quit. Again.

Back to voting!

[Chris Dean]

“They made Chalkboard for chrissake.”

Touché.

But Jobs openly admitted on several occasions that the fact he got into typography very early in his life had a profound impact on his appreciation for good design.

[hrant]

James, issues with external antennas were already well-documented, for example by Nokia and Blackberry. There is no way Apple in general and Ive in particular* were unaware of the potential for failure. The problem is that Apple in general is too concerned with Form, and Ive does fit that mold; you can't trust them with type (which is my main point). Another problem though is that Apple has a secrecy fetish, which results in a dearth of beta-testing (note also the maps fiasco).

* It's quite ironic BTW that Ive's "pretty" design ended up having to be concealed under so many gaudy third-party cases. Although intentionally making the screen easy to crack doesn't help...

Chris, Jobs did use typography as a springboard. But then he moved to platform diving and even stopped changing the chlorine in our pool.

hhp

[JamesM]

I think the problem was not that they knew about the problem and ignored it, but rather they weren't aware of the extent of the problem due to their testing methods.

Trusted Apple employees were given the prototype phone in a specially-designed case to make it look like the older model, so they could test it in public. However the presence of the case greatly reduced the problem. I have one of those models, and when you put it in a case the problem goes away.

Should they have caught the problem earlier? Yes. But I doubt if Ives was even aware that the problem existed.

> Apple in general is too concerned with Form...
> you can't trust them with type

I don't understand that comment.

[hrant]

To me reading and "pretty" don't go together.

hhp

[aluminum]

"The problem is that Apple in general is too concerned with Form"

It may have been that they erred on the side of form with that particular bit of engineering, but overall, Apple is concerned with user experience. Which is a combination of both the form and the function.

[hrant]

Apple is concerned with user experience

But to me only in the shallowest way - the way that leads to sales. And reading simply isn't very profitable.

hhp

[aluminum]

"But to me only in the shallowest way - the way that leads to sales."

The intent of focusing on user experience is to provide a product people like using. I'm not sure if UX gets much deeper than that. In the end, it's usually all about sales. For better or worse.

[hrant]

Actually I believe user interface is the deepest thing we can design. But all we see now (with Apple leading) is stupid finger swipes. Because that's easy to sell. Challenging users to really leverage their abilities is not.

And I think some companies manage to move up from the only-sales-matters mindset. MS used to be all about money, but look at Bill Gates now. Look at the type MS has been giving us. Apple type? Like I said, Chalkboard. :-/

hhp