InDesign Black Output on PDF Export

[circehouse]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

So I've been trying to solve this problem for awhile now. I've searched through various forms, and everyone has the same few tips to offer, and of course none of them work.

Does anyone here have that problem? When outputing .pdf files black appears as a grey. It's driving me crazy. No matter how I adjust appearance of black settings or my rich black portions It still screws me every time. My recent hack has been to simply set all my blacks to "registration" but obviously that's not the right solution.

Am I missing something obvious? From what i've found from others, this is a big problem. I hope cs3 will fix this.

[Conor]

If you’re outputting it for print (CMYK) it will appear dark grey (which shouldn’t matter too much as it will print as a true black). If you’re outputting it for screen (RGB) it will appear as a rich black.

[Paul Cutler]

I don't have this problem at all. What PDF format are you using and are your CS color settings synced up? What color settings are you using and what is your desired output?

I hope these aren't for print because if you send in registration black you are asking for a very angry printer.

peace

[ben_archer]

...simply set all my blacks to “registration”

Tyler, I know I shouldn't but hahahahahahahahaha. That's funny. RTFM, as they say. You fail to mention exactly how or where this grey-that-should-be-black is appearing, or which tips don't work or rather why you think they don't work.

Something like the Adobe Print Publishing Guide should sort you out.

[circehouse]

I often find myself designing .pdf files intended to be downloaded and printed on laser printers—nothing demanding of pre-press workers. It's not often that a printer needs a .pdf anyhow. So up until now, that absurd registration trick hasn't been an issue.

anyhow, i've solved my problem. sometimes you just need to say things out loud to find the answers. Thanks for slapping me in the face.

[k.l.]

> anyhow, i’ve solved my problem.

How?

[noftus]

yes, how did you solve it?

i often have this problem as well...

[Ralf H.]

In Acrobat Pro you may turn on the overprint preview to see how it will look like in print. But as Conor already said: It's just the way how 100% black in a CMYK document looks like on screen. Nothing to worry about.

Ralf

[filip blazek]

When exporting PDF to be printed on black & white printer, switch off color management in InDesign. Then the black will be black in PDF.

[k.l.]

But as Conor already said: It’s just the way how 100% black in a CMYK document looks like on screen. Nothing to worry about.

No, it affects printing on (some) laser printers too.

When exporting PDF to be printed on black & white printer, switch off color management in InDesign. Then the black will be black in PDF.

Yes, this is what I did. But since CM is regarded as a must today, and on certain forums turning CM off is almost regarded as a bad "hack", I wonder if there's an official solution to this.  :)

[Ralf H.]

Are we talking about PDFs for screen, offset or laser/inkjet printing?
And are we talking about black text or something like a big black rectangle. For large areas of black you may wan't to add some cyan to your black to get a richer black in offset/laser printing. But don't use this black for text.

Ralf

[Chris Dean]

I have this same problem and have been unable to figure it out with the suggestions above? Any ideas?

Warren

[Kristine Hamilton]

Alrighty. I understand the PDF will appear greyish on screen, but the overprint preview also doesn't look right. I guess I want someone to tell me that it TRULY will print as black, and if there's any way to preview a print-ready file as black, on screen.

[timd]

Check your InDesign (and Illustrator) preferences > Appearance of Black and amend them to display and output all blacks accurately, they will look grey (compared to the rich black). To preview a print-ready file you could print separations as a pdf and then open it in Photoshop or Illustrator and check the setting in the colour palette.

Tim

[Ralf H.]

I guess I want someone to tell me that it TRULY will print as black,

Never trust the screen, trust the numbers. If it says 100% black it will print black.

[Quincunx]

Then again, black offset-ink on white stock isn't really all that black, either. ;)

[dcastillo]

When you have a value of 0,0,0,100% (C,M,Y,K) as your black, it won't show up as the deepest black in print (though it's not bad). Acrobat reveals this fact, as it tends to be a print previewer of sorts (don't quote me on that, but I do use the program to double-check if I missed a black value here and there). The printers I deal with usually would add 65% to the cyan values to make it deeper (when printing full color). If you want the deepest of the deep, just set all CMYK values to 100%, it's just much more difficult to register, especially say, if you have type set in 6pt, light, in white, on top, of that.

[Quincunx]

Even if you add like 30 and/or 40 % of CMY to your black, it will look much better. That's what I do if I really want something to be deep black.

[marcox]

As a previous poster mentioned, DON'T set your blacks to be 100c100m100y100k. Most printers have maximum density (dmax) value -- the sum of all the percentages of the 4 process colors -- somewhere in the low 300s.

"Rich" black recipes vary by printer -- be sure to ask yours. Our magazine printers prefer a 40c20m20y100k blend.

[Bert Vanderveen]

Colourmanaged output will vary according to the outputprofile. Eg in newsprint dot gain (the amount that inkt will spread when printed on that specific substrate) can be up to 20% or more. That means that the original values of tints etcetera will have to be corrected to account for this. Outputting with a newsprint profile could lead to a full black being output as an 80% blacktint.

The same principle applies to other substrates and press techniques.

Re printing standards: In Europe offsetprinting has been standardized according to an ISO-norm, set by the European Color Initiative. More info here:
http://www.eci.org/eci/en/041_offset.php
Put simply: working with ISO-certified printers and the standard profiles from ECI guarantees satisfying results, irrespective of press profiles and such (those are used in house by the printers).

I don’t know what the situation in the US is nowadays, but a couple of years ago standardisation was strictly something done by the major printing companies (and publishers that use different printers).

___
Bert Vanderveen BNO

[Danny Yee]

Circehouse - For the benefit of the forum, can you tell us your solution? I'm also having this problem! Thanks!

[Quincunx]

Why is everyone calling it a 'problem'? :)

It is not a problem; it is just the way CMYK or K black looks on screen.

If you chose black (K), it will print as black. If you don't trust it will, check color separations in Acrobat (or photoshop). If your PDF is for screen only, you could make the black RGB.

And if you want a true, rich black in print; add some color to K, e.g. 0C 60M 30Y 100K (I think this will also look more black on screen. And is obviously only suitable for full color print jobs).

[pattyfab]

Why is everyone calling it a ’problem’? :)

Because it is a problem. If I need a client to sign off on a pdf, I need it to look on screen as close as possible to how it will actually print. Saying don't worry it will print black requires a leap of faith in my clients and I don't feel comfortable with that. I don't understand why Adobe can't fix this bug.

[Bert Vanderveen]

@Quincunx: The original question had nothing to do with Rich Black. The problem lies in the way pdf's get generated with colormanagement on. Maybe my 14 Sept. post wasn't very clear… : )

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

[Ralf H.]

>>>If I need a client to sign off on a pdf, I need it to look on screen as close as possible to how it will actually print.

Then you should send them a PDF in an RGB color space.
Again, it's not a bug, and there is nothing for Adobe to fix.

Ralf