CMYK colour chart

[ill sans]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

CMYK colour charts always seem to be spread over several diagrams with one colour's percentage fixed (eg. C horizontally, M vertically & Y fixed). Is there a reason for that? Does anyone know if there has already been a full userfriendly chart made that displays all possible variations in one diagram?

[ebensorkin]

I have explored this kind of thing and I found that the only way to get a reasonble idea of what a color would look like would be to print a huge sheet or many smaller ones - the reason being that you need about an inch x and inch of color to see what your getting ( okay maybe a bit smaller...); and you need steps of 5%. Sometimes you need to dial things more tightly still. That adds up to a hell of a lot of squares.

There are companies that specialize in color management that sell sheets that are meant to help in a process that callibrates your documents to a given printing response. I actually built one for a VERY screwy color laser. It was a nightmare but an interesting one.

Why do you want this one sheet to rule them all anyway?

[ill sans]

I challenged myself to put all variations in one userfriendly (which was the biggest challenge) diagram & managed to do so. I just wanted to check if this kind of diagram already exists because I've never seen anything like that. Do you have a link for these sheets so I can compare them to mine?
And here I am, thinking I was about to win the Nobelprize for graphic design :-)

[AndrewSipe]

Tom are you going to share your handy work with the rest of us?!

[ill sans]

I want to check if it already exists first (just for copyright reasons).
I can tell you that it makes a nice poster for the office though ;-)
I've only made a scaled down version with percentages of 25, but the concept can be applied to other percentages as well. I have to be honest that it took me quite a while to figure out a system in which you can immediately identify each percentage without having any doubles. I've already started thinking of a system for RGB which will probably be even trickier. I'm also thinking of a variation of my CMYK chart, but I'm still working on that.
As soon as I know it already exists (or as soon as my copyright is assured) I'll share my "secret recipe" with the rest of you here.
After Eben's reply I googled for CMYK colour sheets, but I still haven't found anything that resembles mine, so I'm still rooting for that Nobelprize ;-)

[KenBessie]

I'm very interested in your chart. I'd love to see it posted when you're ready.

Graphics Master by Dean Phillip Lem contains a "Process Color Selector Guide" printed on coated and uncoated stocks, with percentages of 10%. (I have the second edition, printed in 1977). From your description, Lem's work doesn't resemble yours.

Good luck with that Nobel prize :-)

[ill sans]

I already contacted SABAM today for information about copyright and/or a patent. The moment I know I'm "protected", I'll post an example along with an explanation of how the idea came about.

[Jackie Frant]

More than 10 years ago, my husband put one together for Stevenson Photol Color Co. in Ohio. Recently, I got a little program called Art Directors Toolkit. What a pleasant surprise, and very useful. Not only does it help with exact measurements for layouts, has colors for swatches - and for blends. Lets you get an idea for a color overprint - as opposed to knockout. It may be several years late in the coming, but still a gem.

You can read about it here: http://www.code-line.com/software/artdirectorstoolkit.html

but I'm probably late to the party, and all of you knew about this already - right?

[ebensorkin]

I found the old files but the test sheets don't cover 100% of the range just some reference points and some 'hard to get right' colors. They were for calibration not for general reference.
I also found my old files they are overly precise, taking steps in 1% increments. Perhaps I should release them.... maybe one day. I also have a book called "Process Color Manual, 24,000 CMYK Combinations for Design, Prepress, and Printing" by Pat Rogondino & Michael Rogondino. It has maybe 50 pages or so and I think it uses the 5% jumps and covers the whole range from 0 to 100 in a fairly sequential manner.

Thinking about what you have described I am puzzled. Jumps of 25% seem awfully big to me. So how does it go? 0, 25, 50, 100? Have I understood you? It seems like 5 or 10% jumps would have far more utility.

Still, I am interested to see what you made. I can send you some of the files I have if you are interested.

[ill sans]

I just used the 0-25-50-75-100% range as a test. It's an easier & quicker way to make a prototype & easier to check for potential flaws. As I already said earlier, it took me quite a while to make a userfriendly (I can't stress this enough) diagram in which all possible varations are shown without repeating a single one. Obviously, there's a lot of black, but that's because every combination with 100% black & the 100% CM&Y all make black. I haven't checked Jackie's link yet, but until now I haven't found any CMYK colour chart that covers everything in one scheme unless maybe it just "sums them up" with the percentages printed in the colours themselves, but in that case it's not really a diagram & can not be used as such.
If anyone has any links to companies that make colour charts, please post them here. If I can't find anything similar, I'm considering pitching my idea to these companies.
The "Lukacs CMYK colour chart", I kind of like the ring of that ;-p

[aluminum]

I'm confused as to how a color swatch chart can be patented. That said, there are some insane patents being approved these days.

If you made it, it's yours. You own the copyright.

[Ricardo Cordoba]

ill sans, I too am curious about your chart, though I am joining in late. I don't want to be a party pooper, but my understanding is that a color chart's usefulness is limited due to the fact that a laser printer's output varies according to many factors, such as humidity and temperature. Having said that, I am still curious about your chart and would love to see it. :-)

[ill sans]

It's not really the colour chart itself that I'm trying to "protect" for now, but the idea of the diagram itself. It's the first diagram I know of that displays 4 different values for each element. The concept might even have its use in maths or science. I used the CYMK colour chart as a jumping off point (putting all combinations; hue, saturation & brightness included in one -here we go again- userfriendly chart), but it's basically really about unfolding a 3D-model to a simple 2D chart.

[Jackie Frant]

This was on line
It is a typical CMYK color chart

http://www.mckinleyville.com/cart/files/CMYChart.pdf

Here is a tattooer that made up their own: (and it's a bit different)
http://www.customtattoos.net/cmyk.pdf

If you just go to yahoo or google and type in CMYK color chart - you'll be amazed at all the other examples that pop up - including the books on this topic... like tintbooks...

[ill sans]

Thanks for the links everyone, but I'm afraid some of you are not quite getting my point. Jackie, your CMYK charts are the ones I've seen before (as mentioned in my original post), but it's really about getting àll possible combinations in òne (supersized obviously) chart that allows you to read 4 different values (the percentages of CMYK) without having any doubles. It's the idea behind the diagram what it's really about. In every CMYK chart I've seen so far, there's always one fixed percentage (usually Y), but in my chart all percentages of all colours are variable. I have found a way to unfold a 3D-model to a userfriendly 2D-diagram & I'm just trying to find out if this kind of thing has been done before. It may seem implausible & even quite arrogant of me to think that I might be the first one to come up with this diagram, but until now all Google sessions & links here seem to imply that indeed this kind of thing hasn't been made yet. Maybe nobody ever bothered to do so & everybody was quite happy with the colour charts spread over several pages & diagrams or maybe -and I might come off a little arrogant again here- I'm the first one to succesfully do it.
It started off as a colour chart, but it is now really about the diagram and not the colours. All diagrams that I've seen so far have two axes (X & Y) & only display two values for each element. Mine displays 4 different values for each element & that's what I'm hoping is something new. It's very hard to explain without the diagram itself to illustrate what I'm talking about, but since I'm hoping this might be a discovery, I'm trying to "protect" my copyrights and what not before giving it away. As soon as my rights have been assured, I'll post an example here to illustrate my point with a brief explanation of how it came about.

[Jackie Frant]

Tom,

It sounds like you've made yourself quite a design project, that unlike so many others, may actually benefit printers and designers.

Best wishes with it - I hope when it's done - copyrighted, secured - you'll share it with us.

[kentlew]

It’s not really the colour chart itself that I’m trying to “protect” for now, but the idea of the diagram itself.

I'm hate to disappoint you, but ideas or concepts cannot be copyrighted. You can only copyright the specific expression of an idea or concept in tangible form. So you can get a copyright on your chart (once it is produced and published), but you can't copyright the idea, and not in advance.

You may be able to get some limited patent protection for your idea, if you can present it as an invention. The term of protection is more limited and the application process will be more difficult.

Good luck.

-- Kent.

[ill sans]

Thanks for your best wishes! I'm still anxiously waiting for SABAM's reply (which I probably won't get until monday), but if indeed I can't copyright the idea, I still might get the diagram named after me & that would look quite nice on my resume ;-) I'm honestly completely clueless about copyrights & patents, but the sheer thought of maybe having discovered something new is absolutely thrilling. My selfconfidence grows with every new post here & I'm actually starting to think I might have an innovation in my hands that is not only usefull for colour charts, but might actually benifit the mathmetical/scientific world as well.
Again, if anyone knows of any companies that might be interested, please post them here. I might be able to sell my idea.

[kentlew]

If you end up getting it produced and put a unique name on it, you might be able to trademark the name (depending upon what you call it). So, that could be of some value.

-- K.

[ill sans]

Well, actually the name diagram is incorrect, so I'm going to try selling it as the "Lukacs quartogram" or something similar. It would be nice to have some kind of legacy and have your name live on after you & at least this way I won't have to worry about sending my legacy off to college someday ;-)

[Dunwich Type]

Thanks for the links, Jackie. I spent an hour trying to dredge something like that up a few days ago with no luck.

[KenBessie]

If the "Lukacs quartogram" falls through, you could maybe design a typeface and name it after yourself. We know how the copyright works on that. :)

[aluminum]

"I’m trying to “protect” my copyrights and what not before giving it away."

If you made it, you HAVE the copyright.

As to whether or not it's a patentable idea, only $$$ and a patent lawyer will help you with that. ;o)

That said, you appear to be in Belgium. I really have no idea how patents and copyrights work over there.

[ill sans]

Neither do I, but there's an organisation here (I don't know if it's internationally known) that guides you through copyright related issues called SABAM & I've already sent them an email asking them what to do next. I'll probably have an answer on monday & until then I'm just going to sit on it & keep my fingers crossed that it won't turn out that somebody already beat me to it. Like I said before, it seems very implausible that I would actually be the first one to come up with a "quartogram", but so far everything seems to indicate that I am (knock on wood!). And if so, then it would be nice to somehow get the recognition for it in its name for instance.

[ebensorkin]

I think the queston you have to resolve is if you can pack a reasonable amount of samples onto one sheet. I think you will have to make it into a poster to have any chance of that. I also don't think that the value of the poster ( assuming I a correct ) will neccesaily be greater than a well designed booklet. Perhaps your idea can play out wihin a booklet instead. I would be more willing to buy a great booklet han a poster.

In any event I would bet that your fame if there is some will result from the utility of the object itself not from the virtue of the idea itself. Still, my skepticism aside I do hope you have success with this and I would echo what other people said about pursuing a patent quesrry if you really think you have something hyper-marketable.

If it was me I would be less concerned with patentability and more concerned with raw and actual market forces. I also think that feedback on your design and that improvment is likely to be of the greatest economic value of all. These are just my guesses of course.

Cheers!