bloody rip off artists!

[muzzer]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

SO what do you fullas think about this? I know there ar eheaps of con artists ripoffs but this is so blatant that it is shocking!

orignal: http://vllg.com/Thirstype/Infinity/mudTyper+Weights/

ripoff: http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/t26/aeon/

is this typical for t26?? I know they were really hot about 10 years ago, but who is really into this??

Muzz

[Stephen Coles]

This is not a typical T26 borrowing of concept. I think Thirstype definitely has a legitimate cause for complaint.

[Nick Shinn]

Well maybe they thought chester was some old guy like adrian frutiger, so it was OK to make like microsoft (segoe) or adobe (myriad).

[Stephen Coles]

A little closer than those, Nick.

[dicharry]

wow. that's bad.

[dicharry]

is there any recourse for something like this? i always remember hearing that you "can't copyright an alphabet" which allowed for all kinds of helvetica and frutiger knockoffs. so the question is: what can 3st do other than shame T26 into voluntarily removing the font from their collection?

[Stephen Coles]

Perhaps T26 is unaware of Infinity, and just accepted it on its merits. Hard to imagine, but possible. Either way, they should be more careful.

What Mr. Paul Nojima was thinking, I can't imagine.

[Robert Trogman]

This happens all the time. The only thing you can protect is the name.

[Stephen Coles]

Robert - I understand your experience is from the film type era when copying was common, but this level of plagiarism of an existing digital typeface is actually pretty rare today.

[raph]

Of course, what's truly unforgivable is that the T26 ripoff is of inferior quality. When H&FJ rework the already excellent Avenir into the transcendently good Gotham, that's called "standing on the shoulders of giants." But this is just trying to make a dishonest buck off the backs of others.

In other countries than the US, there may be legal recourse. In the meantime, Mr. Nojima and T26 have created an entry onto their permanent Internet records that will be very hard to erase. I certainly can't imagine legitimate font people or designers working with either one now. For shame.

[Miss Tiffany]

I've emailed them to see if we can't get a response. Until then I think it is best to not jump the gun. T26 is a nice group of people who do not condone piracy so I will give them the benefit of the doubt as I hope we would all do.

[Uli]

> you “can’t copyright an alphabet”

But in some countries, you may register new and original letter designs.

> bloody con artist ripoff

In my terminology, it is not a "ripoff", but rather a forgery by the Monotype method, because, while most lowercase and uppercase letters and most tabular figures are identical in design, there are a few exceptions, e.g. capital "K", German "ß", the "@" sign and a few other characters:

http://www.sanskritweb.net/temporary/infinity-aeon.jpg

Yet, another question is, whether "Infinity" is an original font at all.

More research would be required to decide this question.

[Stephen Coles]

I've done the research. Infinity is original. Aeon is not.

[ybaggar]

Paul Nojima about Aeon: "I created this typeface to be used for my own personnal identity system. I wanted something UNIQUE to represent myself."

Wow!

[SuperUltraFabulous]

It's too close to be unintentional. Not one person has the same exact idea for 97% of the alphabet.

Although it is not discussed very often, designers do compete with each other. New genres enter the market (or re-enter) and then in two to three years time you have many types that are competitive with each other. And it makes sense too. If there is a [historic] model- there's always room a new spin- even if it's not old. Its also good for consumers too.

If I like Bureau Grotesque but not the price (700 smackers) or its serious demeanor
then
Process Type's Maple- but it doesn't have old style figures and maybe too much personality
then
Parry from OurType which is super clean maybe a little too sanitized
then
I have to wait for National Grotesque from KLIM which has a little Akzidenz in it but if want more Swiss
then
Endurance Pro from Ascender Corp which is super affordable and reminds me of...

I think you get the idea! Inspired- but not a copy nor a forgery. So since this is an obvious copy I wonder if he just customized Infinity to his liking and mistakingly reasoned he could sell his modified copy. And just for arguments sake- What inspired Infinity? Is Infinity based on a type that has a structure/skeleton just so that we could say two people looking at the same source could get 'inspired' to created a techie sans with a similar look much in same way my examples above seem to?

I hope all is worked out soon,

Mike Diaz

[Nicole Dotin]

Muzz, curious as to what your connection is to the typeface and why you're interested in stirring this pot so publicly...

[SuperUltraFabulous]

Off Topic>>> Nicole I love your Elena!!! I hope to see it published soon!!! Congrats... Mike Diaz :o)

[Quincunx]

That's just a bit too close.

[kegler]

is there any recourse for something like this?

Yes. The affected parties could work it out amicably or it could get messy. Too close for coincidence and T.26 likely was unaware or would not have released it. Perhaps the type world could use an arbitrator for such issues.

[Miss Tiffany]

I was only playing list-mom again. Sorry to those who think I was out of line. When I come across things that are too close for comfort I email the foundries.

[crossgrove]

Raph, a note: Frutiger referred to Futura when designing Avenir (hence the name). Gotham is derived directly from building signage in New York City, hence its name. It shares some traits with Avenir, but I doubt H+F-J even referred to Avenir in the development of Gotham. The major difference is the x-height.

[Miss Tiffany]

Aeon isn't available on the T.26 site.

[KenBessie]

Tiff why are you apologizing? You stated that you asked both foundries for their comments and asked us not to speculate until we hear their positions. Truly commendable.

But also, thanks to muzzer for drawing our attention to this. Now we, as a group, are aware of the situation. But we need details from Village and T26.

[Village]

Hello all. It has been interesting to read the lively discussion here.

Murray is a long-standing and repeat customer of Village, and previously Thirstype. He has licensed several of our faces, and has provided valuable feedback and insights. Yes, he has a gruff manner and an... "unedited" prose style, but he's a good guy. He emailed me yesterday to point out the similarities of Aeon to Infinity, and asked if I thought it was appropriate for him to post on this site. I didn't see why not, and told him I had no objections.

I immediately leapt into action myself, contacting both MyFonts and T-26, and receiving quick replies from each concerning the matter. In fact, the Aeon typeface has already been removed from the T-26 site, and should hopefully be wiped from the MyFonts database shortly.

To address Uli's question about the originality of Infinity. The face was originally designed at Thirst as part of a new identity for the modem manufacturer USRobotics in late 2000. The process is documented in the book "Emotion As Promotion": http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580930972/qid=1108143698/...

With best regards to the Typophiliacs,
chester
Village

[Miss Tiffany]

Thank you for filling in the blanks, Chester.