The Great MyFonts Purge of 2009

[hrant]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

Motivated by the honorable commitment on the part of MyFonts to remove fonts in their library that are plagiarized from other designs*, I would like to propose launching a concerted effort to purge MyFonts of such typefaces. I feel that this would be a great cultural service, as well as provide indirect financial support to scrupulous font designers in the long term. As such, foundries registered with MyFonts would be the main participants of this effort, although of course any qualified person should consider it.

* https://typography.guru/forums/topic/65966-forwarding

Needless to say this should absolutely not become a witch-hunt, and we need to remain realistic. MyFonts is the referee, whose final decision cannot be contested; and we cannot use this opportunity to try to remove fonts simply because we think they're not well-made. Our only role would be to amplify the ability of MyFonts do its house-cleaning, to make it even better than it already is.

The question is, how do we organize such a "committee"?

My suggestion would be to:
1) Compile a list of willing volunteers, using this thread.
2) Implement an intelligent but fair mechanism of excluding saboteurs from volunteering.
3) Get a list from MyFonts of the alphabetic distribution of font quantities.
4) Assign the workload alphabetically to the volunteers.
5) Give the volunteers plenty of time (but still have some sort of deadline).
6) Require that the volunteers submit work-in-progress to the committee.

In the end, the committee would hand over a list
of fonts to MyFonts, and then promptly disband.

Please let me know what you think, and if you'd like to volunteer.

hhp

[Dan Gayle]

>>In the end, the committee would hand over a list of fonts to MyFonts, and then promptly disband.

Isn't that similar to what is said during every military coup?

Regardless...

In your great "purge", how would people get access to the outlines, which IMO is the only concrete way to make sure that a typeface is unique?

[k.l.]

I find Adam's suggestion (send an email to MyFonts) easier to pursue. Don't you think the committee idea is a tad too democratic or communistic for a monarchist? ;-)

[russellm]

Well, Dan, I think that in Stalin's day, a simple call to the local commissar did the trick.

If it looks suspiciously like somebody else's work, you can report it to MyFonts's & and their equivalent of the NKGB can get on the case.

Is there a Siberia in Fontland?

-=®=-

[mehallo]

Sounds really dangerous to me.

Good idea, but really easy to abuse.

And since I teach design history, which includes some wonderful examples of things like this that have gone horribly, horribly wrong (the career of ernst deutsch comes to mind; and of course, the degenerate art exhibit as an extreme example)

How 'bout using the What The Font technology to simply look for similar strokes to existing digital types in their library (and others) - and go from there.

And one thing about their contract is there is VERY STRONG language about copying existing fonts and posting them as your own. (At least that's what I remember signing, I'd have to go dig it up)

s.

[Dunwich Type]

This can only go horribly wrong.

[nina]

Of course the people involved in this would need to be secretive about their suspicions before MyFonts decides "who to free and who to blame".
But I think some are overplaying the Great Danger here. Note point 2 in Hrant's post (which does sound like he's planning a guerrilla war of sorts, but also shows a good dash of prudence), and that the goal of this is stated as making *recommendations* to MyFonts – not going out on the streets at night and blindly massacre unsuspecting type designers who might be forging stuff.

That said, I also doubt the idea, while honorable, is actually practicable. For one thing, I wonder about the actual methodology of spotting the culprits. Dan makes a good objection, to start with. I worry that it sounds a bit too good/idealistic to be workable.

[Dan Gayle]

I will say this however, "The Great MyFonts Purge of 2009" has a certain ring to it. Is that destiny I hear calling?

[Stephen Rapp]

What would the criteria be for "plagiarized"?

There are designs that are based on another's work, but digitized from scans rather than direct software copying. I know of one instance where work was scanned directly out of a lettering artist's instructional book (despite protests) and made into a fairly popular font.

[hrant]

> how would people get access to the outlines

That's something MyFonts would do (as Adam says he's done before) as a "stage 2". BTW, I personally don't think plagiarism is limited to swiping outlines; for example if somebody makes an Industria copy from scratch, I would think it should be removed (even though it's not illegal, at least not in the US).

> really easy to abuse.

The saving grace is that the decision remains with MyFonts. All we would be doing is bringing things to their attention. And the reason this makes sense is because: there are so many fonts in their library; and many eyes are better than a few. In fact I see this as a continuous process (I mean even with existing fonts, not new ones) with repetitive iterations slowly weeding out problem fonts; a person who did the "P" fonts could take on the "Q" fonts afterwards, and find something the first "Q" screener missed. Waiting in your dentist's lobby? Instead of playing that dumb iPhone game, make yourself useful! :-)

> I find Adam’s suggestion (send an email to MyFonts) easier to pursue.

This is basically a scaled-up, organized version of that.

> What would the criteria be for “plagiarized”?

That's a good question. But again, the criteria remain within MyFonts. Guidance from MyFonts would certainly help align our work with their "actionability".

--

Basically, it doesn't make sense to say: "It's not fair, because without your help MyFonts would never have caught that font."

--

What I'm picturing is neither self-righteous nor highly robust. I see it basically as a way to provide free manpower to MyFonts, our collective culture, and each other.

hhp

[Dan Gayle]

Now, that Magazine Scout Task Force idea sounds cool. That sounds like a blog idea. I'd contribute to that.

[hrant]

{An edit brought this down one spot.}

BTW, I once had the similar -if less thorny- idea of having a Magazine Scout Task Force or something: a group of people where each person has the responsibility of scouring a given design magazine each issue, and reporting what type-related stuff it has to all interested. I thought of that simply as an efficiency too: I was spending too much time fishing for and looking through design magazines every stinkin' month for something interesting. Now, because that "task force" was not formed, I've had to stop looking almost completely.

hhp

[dezcom]

"Don’t you think the committee idea is a tad too democratic or communistic for a monarchist? "

LOL!!! funniest post of the day!

ChrisL

[paragraph]

A Committee of Font Safety. Hmmm. Let's dust off the Guillemet and lop off some serifs, terminals, and bowls.

[Simon Robertson]

couldn't myfonts simply have some sort of built-in reporting on each font?

so as i'm searching, i see a font that i think looks stolen from somewhere else, so i simply click the 'report this font' button and write a brief message to myfonts explaining my concern.

also, how would you handle the historically situation of fonts like Helvetica where there are numerous legal 'copies' by well-established foundries?

[Ricardo Cordoba]

And since I teach design history, which includes some wonderful examples of things like this that have gone horribly, horribly wrong

Secret tribunals, anyone?

[Ricardo Cordoba]

also, how would you handle the historically situation of fonts like Helvetica where there are numerous legal ’copies’ by well-established foundries?

Well, those wouldn't fall under scrutiny, I suppose. But there are plenty of "revivals" of typefaces that are given completely different names. What about those?

[bowerbird]

ricardo said:
> Secret tribunals, anyone?

i'm new here, so i can pretend i don't know
you've all seen this a million times already...

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3k5oY9AHHM

-bowerbird

[hrant]

Simon, I actually presented that idea in that other thread,
although I thought it would make sense to restrict the
feedback source to registered foundries.

Guys, cut the sinister angle eh? :-)

hhp

[paragraph]

Well, Hrant, honestly, why should we purge MyFonts at all? Are they worried and want our help?

Is the zeal itself not a worry? Nothing better to do, pehaps?

[Miss Tiffany]

I have found that sending an email to MyFonts is the better choice.

[hrant]

Honestly I don't know how badly "infected" MyFonts is - maybe the problem is minimal. But I have to think that if it was minimal they would have said so in the other thread; instead they expressed their encouraging desire to make/keep MyFonts clean, with people like Adam apparently previously spending a good amount of time checking stuff out. And I think the reason is simple: it's something reputable signatories to the MyFonts contract consider added value.

Tiffany, this is sending an email to MyFonts. Just a large one that's a result of a concerted effort, instead of a group of headless chickens randomly running into stuff, and not even knowing the criteria that MyFonts would use to take their alert seriously or not.

--

Update:
I just read in that other thread Mike telling me that "you overstate the frequency of plagiaristic fonts appearing on MyFonts." So maybe this would be wasted effort after all. On the other hand, from the rest of Mike's post in that thread I have to think that what I consider a good definition of "plagiarism" is broader than his, and by extension presumably that of MyFonts. But that's a MyFonts matter, so a better course of action right now might be to convince them to broaden their definition!

hhp

[Quincunx]

Actually, I think someone did say the problem isn't that big in the other thread.

> so as i’m searching, i see a font that i think looks stolen from somewhere else, so i simply click the ’report this font’ button and write a brief message to myfonts explaining my concern.

Unfortunately such an option never really works. It gets abused very quickly.

[hrant]

Did you read my "Update"?
I made that edit over 12 hours before your post.

> Unfortunately such an option never really works.
> It gets abused very quickly.

Really? Remember, only MyFonts makes the decision (and if they err it would probably be on the side of keeping the font). All third parties are doing is raising flags. Practically, the MyFonts "engine" could pass along a font to a human for possible purging only after it gets multiple flags.

hhp

[Quincunx]

> I made that edit over 12 hours before your post.

Oh right, this board is too confusing with posts jumping all over the place when someone edits them. I wonder why that hasn't been fixed yet, it's quite annoying.

> Really? Remember, only MyFonts makes the decision (and if they err it would probably be on the side of keeping the font).

I understand, but there will always be childish people who organize something so that a gang of people click the 'report this' button.