David Berlow on A List Apart on Webfonts

[Thomas Phinney]

bowerbird:

"Wrong, wrong, wrong"? Next time you go off on a rant, have some evidence.

The type industry already have over a decade's worth of evidence that "DRM Extra Lite" can work reasonably well, in the form of embedding bits for print usage. Some vendors don't allow such embedding, or allow it for view and print but not editable embedding. They set their fonts appropriately. Most users who run into restrictions due to the embedding bit settings don't hack their fonts to get around this, they just accept it. Would it be easy to hack the fonts? Sure. Do a large percentage of people do it? No. If they don't like the restrictions, they learn from the experience, and maybe they license different fonts.

So, you're saying a nearly identical mechanism wouldn't work for the web, because...?

[Randy]

Re: hosted webfonts and bandwidth insanity

Seems this is the biggest question: What happens when the hits go nuts and bandwidth skyrockets??

Seems like the foundry could offer a basic web license that would guarantee a certain amount of bandwidth (impressions) that would be adequate for 95% of websites. When you get to people like Amazon or Wikipedia, or any site really where bandwidth would be crushing, this is a different kind of client entirely. They have already solved their bandwidth issues. License them to use the fonts on their own servers for a higher fee.

OR

Somebody starts a company that services the foundries and builds a robust enough back end to handle it. We're talking small font files not video. The load wouldn't be THAT crazy.

[Dunwich Type]

Thomas, the PDF embedding bits serve a different purpose than web fonts and are deployed differently. Not many fonts disallow embedding, and while many disallow embedding into editable documents, I don’t get the impression that many people are creating editable PDFs using fonts other than common system fonts. I don’t see a big desire on the part of users to get their hands on collections of fonts that allow PDF embedding. Given this I don’t think that the example of PDF embedding bits is an accurate analogy to how users might react to permission bits in fonts.

A better analogy might be the DRM-extra-light system that Adobe uses to protect its software from piracy. Just a simple serial number and a registration system that phones home for some products. Any before any Adobe product makes it to retail, thousands of people are already using cracked copies and monitoring every outgoing nework port on their machine for attempts to contact Adobe. Because unlike PDF with editable content, people are actually interested in getting Adobe software for free.

I think that there are many, many more people who want to embed fonts in web pages than in editable PDFs. And I think that there would be quite a demand for cracking tools and cracked, just as there is for DVDs or software keys. But I also believe that, as with software, most of the demand for pirate fonts comes from people who would not buy the fonts anyway, and they probably aren’t really worth worrying about.

[bowerbird]

thomas said:
> Next time you go off on a rant, have some evidence.

it wasn't a "rant". there was no emotion in it at all from this end.
if you injected some in at that end, that's something that you did.

i'm just entertaining myself, talking with y'all... :+)

anyway...

you say you've got "d.r.m. extra lite", and that it's working just fine,
and the "evidence" you cite is that honest people are acting honestly.

ok, i must be wrong.

d.r.m. "extra light" must be workable, and you've got it working fine,
and it's protecting you, as good as it can, from the dishonest people.

so it sounds like all the problems are solved.

(in other words, if you tell me you've got a frog in your pocket, and
you're willing to bet me money that you've got a frog in your pocket,
i'd be a fool to bet that you _don't_ have a frog in your pocket, right?)

so it sounds like all the problems are solved.

which means we'll be seeing webfonts in use any day now, correct?
i look forward to that day, very soon, and i don't want to miss it, so
could you please have your people call my people when it happens?

thanks a bunch.

you see, i _do_ want you to correct me when i'm wrong. after all,
at the end of the day, that's what i'm here for, to learn from you...

-bowerbird

p.s. and maybe now that you guys have some time free, you could
do something about that global warming thing al gore talks about?

[Thomas Phinney]

James:

It's true that there are a minority of fonts out there which completely disallow PDF embedding, but there are some, and mostly people don't mess with their embedding bits. Working for Adobe from 1997-2008 I learned a wee bit about how users work with these fonts.

Cheers,

T

[masterdimav]

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# Allowed HTML tags:

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# Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links a

[J.Montalbano]

Talking about this is like dancing about architecture.

[bowerbird]

i'm gonna turn off the italics with a tag right here,
and then turn off the bold with a tag right here,
so the rest of this thread can walk erect, yet without hubris.

-bowerbird

[J.Montalbano]

And after all this time you all can't tell when Mr Berlow is having a wank. Astonishing!

[Dan Gayle]

Here's a link talking about hosting your fonts:
http://openfontlibrary.org/wiki/Blocking_drive-by_access

[dberlowgone]

James de Clairavista: "Astonishing!"
Wow, sorry I missed this one.

James I have not played doctor for while now, but here's some help for ya: place your left hand on your right shoulder. Feel down to the first big bump — this is your elbow. The next part's a little difficult because you can't see your own, but ya if look way, way up the flagpole of understanding you can seen the other part, it's mine though, and hopefully one day you'll understand the difference.

Cheers!

[J.Montalbano]

Cheers to you David! This whole thread has been a joy to read and re-read. Such enlightenment, you must be very proud.

[aluminum]

Another interesting discussion killed via cryptic sarcasm.

[dberlowgone]

>Another interesting discussion killed via cryptic sarcasm.
Not Exactly. I'm very busy.

Besides, there is a building code here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that goes like this: when one builds a room for living space, there must be a light switch near the door and a light fixture in the room, so people don't have to walk into a dark room.

There is however, no code, no law and no bylaw that says that there has to be a light bulb in that fixture.

Cheers!

[dezcom]

LOL!

ChrisL

[aluminum]

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