seven with a cross-bar?

[russellm]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

Why?

Fonts with cross-bar sevens (aside from scripts)?

I believe that it is common in the handwriting of people who've been educated in Europe but not so much in North America.

I'm using it to add bulk to a tabular lining seven, but I don't recall seeing it in other fonts apart from scripts.

[Riccardo Sartori]

Do you need a serif or a sans?
You could try to “identify" it using Identifont telling it you just have the 7.
Or you can draw it and feed the image to What The Font and see if it come out with anything.

[oldnick]

Your belief about handwriting training is correct; however, a bar on the seven won't prevent an American from recognizing what it is supposed to be. If it looks good, do it...

[russellm]

:o)

I know it won't cause confusion on this side of the Atlantic. I wasn't confused the first time I noticed it. I just wondered why it was there. My then fiance wondered why it wasn't on my sevens.

The reason I am using in my font is to help he seven take up more space in the tabular figures and kill a gap that would be there otherwise.

The font is a sans.

[Té Rowan]

I've seen a barred seven in some Vietnamese fonts.

http://www.tti-us.com/uvn/

[oldnick]

I just wondered why it was there

I think to avoid confusing a sloppily-written seven with a one...

[russellm]

... Or a two, as was a recent close call at a bookstore where a book's handwritten price might been $12.50 or $17.50 depending on the clerk's interpretation.

I see your point.

[charles_e]

The old European handwritten "one" looked like a Stateside seven. Never in type, though.

As for the character, just steal it from your Tironian "et"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes

[Stephen Rapp]

I think what Nick is referring to is that in scripts, especially from older samples from France and other European countries, the one was often given an exaggerated lead in stroke that could be confused as a seven. Beyond that I think it might have been picked up as a stylistic variant, but the connection between the 1 and 7 in these script forms is likely the main reason for that crossbar.

This is also done with cap Z's, but I'm not exactly clear how that came about other than to add some visual weight and create less white space.

[Uli]

Here are a few typefaces featuring 7 with cross-bar:

Arabella
Arkona
Bison
Brahms-Gotisch
Candida
Chronika
Constantia
Diplomat
Federzug-Antiqua
Forte
Fox
Fraktur-Kursiv
Gotenburg
Hermann-Gotisch
Hobby
Intarsia
Journal-Antiqua
Junior
Lo-Schrift
Prägefest
Reporter
Rheingold
Salto
Schlanke
Signal
Skizze
Splendor
Tannenberg
Trump-Deutsch
Wieynk-Fraktur

Candida is the best-known font with cross-bar 7.

[Indra Kupferschmid]

Maybe google translate can make some sense of this German article for you: http://www.fontwerk.com/840/7-mit-querstrich/

[Té Rowan]

Forgot... I was taught to write 1 with a sloping roof and 7 barred.

[russellm]

seven.tnum from my font. The bar works for me here to bulk up the tabular lining figure 7, preventing those unsightly gaps.

[Frode Bo Helland]

We write those bars horizontally.

[Riccardo Sartori]

I agree with Frode. Now it gives a strong faux-greek feeling. Also, the 1 looks italic compared to the other numbers.

[JoergGustafs]

It was very common in Germany till the 1950s, in both broken and Mediäval (Roman) typefaces.
I’ve seen it on older DIN signs, too (I think DIN Next features a cross-bar seven).

The text Indra linked to sums it up quite well!

[russellm]

thanks.

Happy 2011 everyone

[Lexophile]

I'm an American who writes with a crossbar on the seven and the Z... and I have no idea why.

Maybe I saw it once, and adopted it? Anyone do that when they were learning how to write?

[Uli]

Lexophile:

Look here for 7 and Z:

www.bmukk.gv.at/medienpool/15139/1994_56_beilage2.pdf

(Austrian School Script)

[guifa]

Lexophile: you cross the seven to avoid confusion with the 1 or 2 (depending on your script style either could end up confused, more the 1 in styles where the 1 looks like /\ like in Spain, and 2 elsewhere) and the Z to avoid confusion with the 2. I've always thought it a mathematicians tool more than anything ,where you need to know the difference in handwriting between 2z 22 and 17 11 and 77 for example.

[Frode Bo Helland]

Yes, in fact my old math teacher would slap us students if we didn't draw the seven barred!

[cerulean]

In some cursive scripts, the bar is just about all that distinguishes Z from L.

[guifa]

cerulean: do you have an example of one of those? I've seen a couple of different ways to do a Z but they all begin with the same stroke as the O (up and over) whereas the Ls are normally done with the same stroke as the e (under and up). I have a design I've been fleshing out for children's textbooks but want to include different variants so its usable across different areas.

[cuttlefish]

I don't even remember how I was taught to do a cursive cap L or Z, but I do remember the only thing distinguishing T from F was a crossbar.

[guifa]

Whoa, cuttlefish, where did you learn?