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  1. Yesterday
  2. ReflexBlueHorror

    Thoughts on the modern long S

    Ah, I meant there was nothing prohibiting scribes from writing the s in a manner which exhibits the serpentine quality found in the upper and lower S, or the italic long S which makes use of a descender. The long s would've have retained resemblance if it had used a descender, as done so in the first italic scripts such as found in Arrighi's Operina. I can't find any explanation for the first italic long s. The compression is an interesting hypothesis, but highly problematic. The example you provided is a Textura, so here is an example of a Rotunda which includes ſ, f and s. So the spur definitely pre-dates the Romain du Roi. I was imagining for a while that the compression hypothesis may be plausible for pre-Gothic scripts (re pre-Gothic scripts, I have no knowledge!), but then again it is odd that the S would be compressed, since many other letters do not suffer from compression, but the s does. That, and I can't recall ever seeing a vellum manuscript which has compressed writing. Even Textura, despite its compressed appearance, is a generous script to write in. That wall chart is interesting indeed! I've noticed that the modern Esszett freely varies between a ſ+s or a ſ+archaic z (the '3' shaped z). I don't lean towards either, but I can say from experimenting with a Rotunda, such as above, it is very easy to do ſ+z, and monstrous to attempt ſ+s. My other thought is that the long s it may be some peculiar calligraphic variant such as the r and half r (also in the image above). Unfortunately we can't know what future generations want to know - just as they in the past didn't know we'd be talking about the long s.
  3. Ralf Herrmann

    Thoughts on the modern long S

    Well, there is no absolute distinction between the two. Especially when using roman letterforms, ſs stood in for a blackletter ß for a long time. It was very common in the 19th century and while it ended in Germany officially at the beginning of the 20th century with the introduction of a roman ß, it could be seen decades later. Here is an example of a school script from the 1950s which still listed it as option to learn: https://typography.guru/memorabilia/wall-chart-lateinische-ausgangsschrift-r5/ You can understand it as a relic of the way the letter was once written. Have a look at this example. See how the bulge forms sometimes? That’s why it both makes sense but also isn’t required. I once also heard the interesting story that the horizontal bar represents the original design of the round s which the long s indeed is based on. Inside words it became compressed and elongated and so the bottom-left stroke of an s is still in the letter ſ as the horizontal bar on the right. It’s an interesting hypothesis, but I don’t take it as true so easily. For one, because just looking at the letters I posted above, the person writing this clearly did NOT write the ſ like an s. For fonts today one can never go wrong with a »ſ« based on an f with a missing horizontal stroke just on the right side or altogether. One just has to decide if there are historical models to follow for the project or whether making ſ and f more distinguishable is more important. Not sure why this is baffling. It’s the same situation as with f vs. f.
  4. ReflexBlueHorror

    Thoughts on the modern long S

    It would certainly help the typesetter to avoid confusing it with the uppercase J, in either composition or dis'ing. With digital type, that problem doesn't present itself. My inclination is that without the spurs is superior for reading. It's interesting how the Esszett is now distinguishing between a capital and lowercase by including/omitting the spur. I'm still baffled why a long s would ever terminate at the baseline - it's not like earlier scribes didn't use descenders.
  5. Riccardo Sartori

    Thoughts on the modern long S

    I don’t know much about the use and evolution of |ſ|, but my personal hypothesis about the left-pointing spur is something developed to indicate the x-height (thus the “lowercaseness” of the glyph), like the one on the |l| of the Romain du Roi. As for the choice of omitting it, I think it spurs (!) from the need to better differentiate |ſ| from |f|, either by modern designers or already by their historical references.
  6. Ralf Herrmann

    Wall chart: Lateinische Ausgangsschrift

    Wall chart for German schools showing the roman handwriting children had to learn. An interesting feature of this chart is the alternative version for the letter ß.
  7. ReflexBlueHorror

    Thoughts on the modern long S

    There's a lot of info online on how the long s (ſ) was used in past spelling, but not a lot about why it appears in the alternate forms it does, and what the expectations are today in modern type design if and when (rarely ever) its included or used. I've linked a few samples below, including ligatures ( long s+small roman s, which is often mistaken for the Esszett) for reference (nb. the normal ff ligature is included in comparison to the ſſ ligature). The alternation between Regular & Italic is of course the descender, which follows the same change as the lowercase 'f' between Regular & Italic. The inconsistent aspect which I'm highly curious about, and for which no apparent explanation is available to me, is the left-hand bar which appears on some typefaces, and not on others, or features only in either the Italic or Regular of the given type. What are your thoughts on these reasons? And on good design for the long s?
  8. Last week
  9. On May 15 and 16, 2020, Fontstand in a collaboration with the Technological University Dublin brings its third international typography conference to Dublin, Ireland.
  10. Kevin Thompson

    answered sorrow logo font

    Seconding Riccardo’s identification of this as lettering. There are 36 pages of horror-inspired typefaces on Dafont.com—perhaps one of those faces would work for you. Heartless has a similar vibe.
  11. Riccardo Sartori

    answered sorrow logo font

    Almost certainly lettering, not a typeface.
  12. Roswell: download at MyFonts Also extremely similar, by the same designer, Balboa: download at MyFonts
  13. Hey all I'm trying to find the font they use on the Netflix documentary "Don't F** With Cats". It's used when the story moves from location to location. i.e New York, Toronto, etc. I've included a screenshot of what I'm looking for. Hopefully anybody else looking for this font finds this topic! I couldn't find anything in the search results within the forum. Thank you!
  14. Elli

    answered Looking for the font for Väntänen

    Thanks, Riccardo!
  15. Riccardo Sartori

    answered Looking for the font for Väntänen

    Zapf Chancery Italic download at MyFonts
  16. Hi, Can anyone recognize the font for Väntänen logo? Thanks in advance,
  17. nikolajvt

    answered Genelec Logo font

    Thank you - very interesting! I wonder why it faded into obscurity, since it even seems to have won an award in the 1964 National Typeface Competition.
  18. Riccardo Sartori

    Vestmar by Monokrom

  19. Riccardo Sartori

    LND Kono by London Type Foundry

  20. alex123456

    answered sorrow logo font

    hi, anyone have any idea what this font is? I thought of H74 Corpse but it's not. I dont know the source of this font. I got this image from twitter
  21. Kevin Thompson

    answered Genelec Logo font

    Arnholm Sans Medum, which unfortunately has never received a proper (legal) digitization. Opti-Castcraft used to sell a knockoff called Phillip-Medium.
  22. nikolajvt

    answered Genelec Logo font

    Hi, Does anybody have a clue about what this font could be? It kind of looks like a hybrid between Optima and Gill Sans. I'm pretty sure the same font was used by Onkyo and Mitsubishi on some of their audio equipment from the 1980s - e.g. on the cassette deck on the photo i've attached - or at least it's very very similar, almost too close to be a coincidence. Here are some further examples that I found on the web of what I believe is the same font: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33729226@N07/8859432533/ (An Onkyo receiver) https://www.flickr.com/photos/21476504@N05/15683451618/ (Another cassette deck) https://flickr.com/photos/leethal_lee/16719378982/ (A slightly blurry shot of a Mitsubishi receiver - just to illustrate how the lowercase looks) Could it be som old, forgotten sans-serif that never got digitized? The strange thing is that i've never seen it used outside of audio equipment. Thank you!
  23. thomas gravemaker


    Actually, 'wit' would be better here, 'gerief' indicates spaces from 6 point up. The 'geriefkast' is a typecase holding spaces and quads from 6 to 36 point. In Germany you've got 'Leiste' to hold those spaces.
  24. Earlier
  25. Wow, thanks for the info and leads guys!
  26. Henrik Burman

    answered What adobe font is this? (balans tcm)

    That was my conclusion as well, tx for the input.
  27. George Thomas

    answered German foundry font

    Thanks Ralf. Do you happen to know the time in which it was released? ::edit:: Never mind; I found the information on it. Designed by Albert Christoph Auspurg b. Frankfurt am Main, 1868, d. Leipzig, 1943. Ludwig&Mayer: Aristokrat (1912),
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