Need a printing advice

[apankrat]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

Trying to round up options for printing this business card. I am quite new to this, so I would appreciate some guidance.

First, the paper is Touche from Fibermark. Amazing, suede-like texture. Somewhat similar to Plike, but bolder.

I want to preserve the texture of course, so the inverted printing is not an option. So white needs to be printed on black.

The four options I have arrived at are:

• Metallic foil pressing. Non-metallic foil allegedly flakes and doesn't look sharp enough when finer details are present. An example is here.
• Letterpress in metallic ink. An example is here.
• Engraving. An example is here.
• Silkscreening. An absolutely amazing example is here.

I would rather not do the metallic ink if possible as I need to get flat white for the type. No shimmer and such.

I would rather not do pressing or engraving as these leave the imprint on the back. Though I guess this can be remedied by duplexing or using thicker stock.

Engraving guys said the white is not a problem, but opaque yellow ink is a special order, which takes a while and costs a lot (yellow is used for the middle stroke between two E's).

I am inclining towards the silk-screened version, but I absolutely cannot find anyone who can do it. Leave alone with very tight registration in two colors. Tried emailing the owner of Flickr photo, got no response. Does anyone know if there are any printers that could do this ?

Also the sharpness of small type on that Flickr photo looks very impressive, but I suspect it is very hard to achieve. Am I right ?

Thermography is another option, but local guys are saying that their white inks are not opaque enough to work on black. So I was wondering if doing termography over a foil would work - any thoughts on this ?

Thanks for any pointers and/or comments. I could really use some :-)

[paragraph]

There was a Heidelberg press with UV-set flexo (I think) units for laying opaque white on anything (I think). It's been a while.

[Dunwich Type]

Check with Mosaic in Maryland. They do some very high-end printing and might be able to figure something out or know someone who can do it.

[AGL]

You could choose any of the options you have. I think that in offset this will come out great and clean & affordable. If not, print it in letterpress over black paper - white and yellow.

[AtoZ]

It is unlikely that your thermography over foil idea could be done. Thermography works by dusting a powder over wet ink, and then heating the paper so that the power fuses to the ink and swells. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to print an ink onto foil, not to mention that the heat from the process would probably damage the foil.

Also, thermography is generally looked down on as a poor imitation of engraving.

Unless you can find a silk screener who can do the fine detail and the close registration your yellow ink requires, your best, and most expensive, option is with engraving.

P.S. Thanks for taking the time to provide all the links in your original posting. It really saves time for the rest of us, and allows for better, more informed opinions.
 
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         When going from A to Z,
         I often end up At Oz.

[apankrat]

James, thanks for the Mosaic link. Saved.

AtoZ, good point re: foil idea. I should've thought it through a bit better before posting.

paragraph, AGL - thanks for the comments.

Talked to the engraving guys today, looked at some of their work and it is really impressive. So I will go with the engraving (which actually works out to be cheaper than foil stamping, go figure) on a thinner stock and then will have it duplexed to conceal the engraving imprint on the back. Then a bit of custom die cutting and it'll be a beauty :-)

[PublishingMojo]

There's an aqueous coat that creates the same suede-like finish as Fibermark Touche, but it can be printed on any coated stock. You can use conventional offset to print black (and the yellow rule) on white stock, with the type reversed out, and the suede-finish aqueous on top. We use this process at W.E. Andrews, where I work.

[apankrat]

Thanks, Victor. I haven't even realized the coat can be applied afterwards. That's certainly not something that any of the local guys can do.

[jonathanhughes]

A printer I use here in Buffalo just started offering that coating, and it really does feel like Fibermark Touche. I haven't used it on any projects yet, but they say it softens colors a bit, so that might be an issue.

Jonathan

[mustachioed]

I second Mosaic as I have worked with them many times.

They are one of the best printers in the Mid-Atlantic and have really top-notch guys from their account executives to their pressmen.

Perhaps consulting with them they can offer you the best solution. It doesn't hurt to ask seeing that they're the real experts when it comes to printing.

[apankrat]

Thanks. I just sent them a request.

My local engraver ran a proof of white Plastitone ink on black Touche and it didn't work ! The first sheet was fine, but then the ink started to adhere poorly to the paper on finer details. Which is quite weird, because Fibermark explicitly states that Touche is THE best choice for engraving. Perhaps the problem lies with the ink (not tacky enough ?).

In any case let's see what Mosaic has to say on the subject.

[apankrat]

Just talked to a tech at Fibermark and she said she had no idea who put the "excellent choice for engraving" on Touche's spec page. In fact she said that they got a number of similar complaints, so they are in process of investigating which inks work and which don't.

[apankrat]

Note to self - don't laminate Touche to Plike, these stocks are too different and it causes the card to curl. The curl can be straightened out by hand, but still it's an annoyance that can be avoided. Plike to Plike should've been just fine.

[shielddesign]

If you do decide to go with screen printing you would need 2 hits of the white to make it opaque... that works great on bold graphics, but tends to close up on small type. However that is probably the crispest white you can get. Please post the final would love to see how it turned out.

Nice concept by the way.

[apankrat]

A couple of quick photos. I'll make better ones in the next few days.

• one
• two

Engraved in white ink on black Plike (these guys), laminated to Touche, and then die cut with 1mm round corners.

Unfortunately die cutters did a sub par job. The corners are not as sharp and defined as I wanted them to be, there's lots of glue smudges and jagged edges. Some registration problems too.

But even these things considered cards came out pretty awesome. Having two textures and the engraving really adds a tactile wow factor.

[apankrat]

Oh, and thanks for the comment, shielddesign. Silk screening was my first choice, but I couldn't find anyone capable of doing the small type on a paper. If you know the place, I'd love to hear about it.

[shielddesign]

It looks good, crisp and sharp.

I don't think you would have gotten the sharpness from screen printing at all.

I have a great screen print guy, but he could not have done this.