A4 report

[Member ger…]

This topic was imported from the Typophile platform

Dear Typophiles,

In September I have to typeset a big report (about 120,000 words). It's one I wrote incidentally, and the subject is post-war school buildings in England. c.100 copies will be digitally printed, but most people will read the doc in pdf format as it will be available online.

The documents has to comply with the house style and the report series format of my organisation (info below), which severely limits my options. But I want to do everything I can, within these limits, to ease the typographical pain! So any suggestions welcome, particularly in relation to:

1.Point size/leading. I wondered what people point size /leading people would recommend for extended text in Gill Sans Light on a text block which is about 150x230mm. 11/13 seems to give around 16 words/line --is this ok?

2. Each chapter consists of a main text, followed by a gazetteer which describes a series of case studies. I would expect most readers to read the main text but only 'dip into' the gazetteer. So I was thinking of putting the latter into two columns and small type, say 9/11. Any thoughts?

3. My references will be in endnotes at the end of each chapter (again, part of the house style). I was thinking of putting them into 9 or 8 points in two columns. Is this going test Gill Light or my readers eyes?

Format: Soft-bound A4 report, double-sided.
Margins: L&R 30mm; top 35mm, bottom 45mm
Typeface: Gill sans light.

I will try out a few mockups tomorrow, and may post a few pdfs. Meanwhile, any advice welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Geraint

[Member Kar…]

I just tried formatting your post in Gill Sans Light and it was barely readable. Does anyone in your organisation actually read these things, or is the house style a reflection of reading habits?

[Member hra…]

120,000 words .... in Gill Sans Light

Shirley you can't be serious.

hhp

[Member ger…]

So Gill Sans Light for extended text is a no-no? Or just at smaller sizes? I read quite a bit of it at 11pt and always found it comfortable.

[Member ger…]

That report is available here:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja...

[Member Kar…]

The report you linked to is fascinating but having just skimmed through it on my iPhone, the extensive text in Gill Sans Light is off putting. Granted, the iPhone is a restrictive medium for extended reading but one that I use for that purpose and following a recent download of Instapaper and a recommendation from someone with considerably more experience in such matters, I have been enjoying reading text in Elena.

[Member And…]

The spacing is far too tight.

[Member ger…]

Thanks for the feedback--sobering stuff. Clearly I've two options available to me:
1. To go with the stipulated typeface (Gill Sans Light) but set it as carefully as I can for extended reading(open up the spacing as Andreas suggests, maybe slightly larger point size and/or more leading).
2. To make a case to break withthe house style and go for a face which performs better both on screen and in print. (Typographically of course this is preferable; logistically might not be easy, but that's my problem I suppose). Options might be Charter, which I think we use in other applications, or perhaps something like Constantia.

Please keep the comments coming!

[Member mjr…]

Gill Sans Light is not meant for body text. My suggestion is your second option, but keep GSL for illustration captions, and perhaps page numbers. The other weights of Gill Sans are still acceptable for headings, chapter titles, etc. As for the text, my first choice would be Gentium, which I have found to be a good pairing with Gill Sans headers. It is not excessively "round" (as Gill Sans is), and does not have very sharp serifs which would be a distraction in this case. Of the two you mentioned. Constantia also has those characteristics.

It's a lot like pairing food and wine.

[Member hra…]

You need to fight for #2 tooth and nail. It shouldn't even be a sans. But if they insist on that, go for Legato.

hhp

[Member Joh…]

I'll second Hrant's suggestion of Legato. It is one of very few sans serifs that works well for extended text (in large part due to being properly spaced for such use).

Also, if your report contains anything like the number of dates as the one to which you linked, you should definitely use a font that has oldstyle numerals available.

[Member Nic…]

There’s nothing wrong with Gill Sans Light for body text.
The spec here meets accessibility standards.
However, I don’t like the way the font in the pdf is spaced; too tight, too much kerning—this is especially an issue for screen reading.
Why is the spacing so ghastly? Is it the font or Adobe’s “Optical” kerning?
The typeface was not designed to be spaced this way.

Disclaimer: I was acclimatized to it at an early age, it was the typeface used in my Meccano manuals.

[Member ger…]

Thanks Hrant, John and Nick for your sage comments. I must admit Nick that I've never had a problem with reading Monotype 262. I can't remember whether the spacing and kerning were 'out of the box' or Indy'd optical. I can remember making a character style for thickened fake small caps which looks predictably dreadful onscreen--(& seem a big small on paper).

The main thing is that I don't really have a free hand. I believe our house style contains Carter's ITC Charter--I will find out tomorrow. Using Charter here--perhaps with the Gill for headings as mjr suggests--would bend not break the rules. I've been asked to come up with some recommendations for revising this report format in the coming months, and would like to treat this report as a 'prototype' format for extended reports that would be available to others. That therefore gives weight to using a face which is already 'in place' and for which we possess a licence--ie. Charter. I don't know how well Charter stands up to onscreen use but should imagine such a sturdy face should be ok?

[Member Jos…]

If you're going to futz with the format, try using two columns as well. The line length is much too long in the sample. Letter-sized paper was meant to hold one column of double-spaced typewritten text (manuscript format) and was never intended to hold a single column of properly typeset text.

On second thought, you could do something fun like create a single, preferably off-center, narrower column of text, and use the margins for headings and/or footnotes. Maybe in Gill Sans.

[Member Nic…]

Letter-sized paper was meant to hold one column of double-spaced typewritten text (manuscript format) and was never intended to hold a single column of properly typeset text.

Nonsense.
A4 is just a size between A3 and A5.

[Member hra…]

Indeed, either economy or readability has to suffer when you want one column on Letter/A4 paper. It's dumb to have standardized such a size.

hhp

[Member ger…]

Well, I've made my case for Charter, just need to wait for the response. If I *have* to use GS, then the fallback option is to get hold of the book weight (between light and regular), which has small caps and LC numerals at least. Setting that in two cols, with careful spacing and kerning should make the best of a bad job.

Let's see. I'm away for the next couple of weeks and will post some pdfs on my return.

best,

Geraint

[Member Nic…]

It's dumb to have standardized such a size.

It’s a practical paper and printing size for many kinds of office and job printing, with many kinds of printing/reproduction devices standardized to it; sheet-fed, it may be trimmed, and/or folded and collated to other sizes.
Business cards may be ganged up and printed on card stock this size by small printers.

I've designed many different kinds of commercial document that have been printed on this size paper.

It’s a size used for printing all kinds of documents, not just single-column typesetting and letters.

[Member Ric…]

Multi-column layouts on A4 format magazines (thus A3 spreads) are pretty common in my experience.

[Member hra…]

So I guess to me the question becomes: who messed up first?

Sadly it's no surprise that the actual purpose of something gets sacrificed for some short-sighted expedient.

hhp

[Member Jam…]

> It’s a size used for printing all kinds of documents

Yes indeed, and it's a size that fits well into standard file folders, which is an important consideration for business documents that need to be filed and saved. Also that size works well in standard pocket folders and 3-ring binders.

But generally I don't like to have one column span the width of letter-sized paper; 2 or 3 columns usually work better. Sometimes flipping the page to a horizontal (landscape) orientation and binding on the short edge is a nice way to make the letter-sized format look a little different.

[Member Ric…]

it's a size that fits well into standard file folders

I would have said it’s the other way around…

[Member Wil…]

I do suspect that A4 and US 'Letter' size (8 1/2" x 11") became widely used in offices because of the typewriter, and were perhaps chosen because of it. Does anyone know the history?

[Member Jam…]

> I would have said it’s the other way around…

You're right; file folders are sized to fit letter-size paper; not the other way around.

[Member lap…]

i like this report