Member r44… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 This topic was imported from the Typophile platform Hey Everyone, I'm presently writing a thesis on the emotion of type and how we need a revival in Biblical typography and literary type at large. I was wondering if any of you have any experience in this or any references of interest. I really appreciate any feedback. Thanks! Ryan Mercer Link to comment
Member And… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The scope of your considerations, as you describe it, seems far too wide and vague to get any sensible, usefull answer. How much have you *thought* about your theme? ”The emotion of type…“ – regarding everything from the Coke bottle down to the bible page?! Good luck. ”how we need a revival in Biblical typography…“ – you are postulating an assumption by this but without hinting at the reasoning behind it. You may want to get a bit more precise upon the actual subject. Biblical typography alone is a huge complex subject you’ll hardly pretend to cover as such. Link to comment
Member opr… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Here's something I heard a few time but could never actually confirm or source: They say Luther's Bible, while naturally set in fraktur, used antiqua for passages that mentioned hell. Link to comment
Member ada… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I agree with Nick. As a frequent reader of the Bible, I don't want a revival of early Bible Typography, (presuming we're referring to the English/Latin Script, and not Hebrew and Greek) I want something readable that fits in with my every day life as much as anything else I read. Something I use daily should be usable, so the type should be [usable, function &c] too right? Link to comment
Member Ric… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 You'll need to specify things like which bible version? Printed in what year? Do you mean ones that were copied by hand by scribes? You could look at insular text like that found in the Book of Kells which is a copy of the 4 gospels if that is what you wanted to focus on. Link to comment
Member Nic… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I don't think a revival of old-time biblical typography would be any more use than reviving the King James translation. It's too literary (to use your term) for the general class of reader, in particular new readers. It would be more practical to continue down the progressive road, and produce sans serif text typography to accompany translation in modern language. The future belongs more and more to the sans serif. Link to comment
Member Blo… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I agree with Nick I like the reference. Don't think non-English people will get it though! Link to comment
Member Ste… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Get this book: http://2krogh.dk/bibles/#/category/other Link to comment
Member qua… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The statement "how we need a revival in Biblical typography and literary type at large" is indeed an interesting one. The subject of typography for the Old Testament in the original Hebrew is a fascinating one, because of the complexities introduced by vowel points and Masoretic annotation. But I think that what you are talking about is very different from that. However, the situation in which Jewish editions of the Tanakh are found provides a hint at the issue. In that realm, typefaces of a calligraphic and lapidary nature are often resorted to, such as David, Koren, and Hadassah. An English-language edition of the Bible, on the other hand, is likely to be set in... the 4 1/2 point size of a modern typeface from the 19th Century, some modified Clarendon designed to be especially easy to read, or Times (New) Roman. Most people, when they read narrative fiction, do so in the form of paperbacks which are set in either Times Roman or Caledonia. Imagine the joy of being able to go to a bookstore, and pick up a copy of The Lord of the Rings set in Cloister Lightface, or something else resembling Morris' Golden type. Isn't it time that it should be possible to purchase a family Bible that shows that respect - by means of care and attention - was given to the Word of God by displaying beautiful typography? The choice of face is part of that - Centaur, Bembo, even Garamond are examples of choices that would indicate an intent to make the printed page a thing of beauty. And, of course, these days computers make it so easy to accomplish at least some of the steps involved in producing masters for a publication that would at least resemble a private-press production of yesteryear. The effort is so much less, and yet the typography of so many books is bland and nondescript, when it could be... a selling point, if nothing else. Link to comment
Member Dun… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Isn't it time that it should be possible to purchase a family Bible that shows that respect - by means of care and attention - was given to the Word of God by displaying beautiful typography? It would be a wasted effort. Few people still study the bible by sitting down at a desk with a twenty-pound bible in front of them. They do it in groups, in church, whole commuting, or other situations that make portability more important than fine typography. Others use computers to study multiple digital bibles simultaneously. For the minority who actually want a huge, beautiful bible there are plenty of antiques floating around in bookstores and various collectible presses crank out good facsimiles of old editions. Link to comment
Member qua… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 One of the criticisms levelled at the original post is reasonable enough. A thesis does need to be more than sitting down at the piano and singing "We need a guy like William Morris again"... instead, one should investigate why it is that, even though much that William Morris produced is acclaimed, attempting to follow in his footsteps is not where the action is at present. Thus, the expression of typographic creativity at present is often found in areas like advertising and signage. Books, particularly books of any length, remain constrained by the cost of paper. If anything, the situation is significantly worse than in the 19th Century, given our declining forest resources - thus, the emphasis on the use of recycled paper. A recent Canadian news story, about temporary availability problems for the book "The Sentimentalists" by Johanna Skibsrud, after it won the Giller Prize, might also be worth looking at as a starting point. Link to comment
Member sch… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 They say Luther's Bible, while naturally set in fraktur, used antiqua for passages that mentioned hell. Never heard that. It sounds to me like an urban legend. Here is an example of the Luther Bible from 1545 (the first complete translation was published in 1534) showing the end of chapter 20 of the Apocalypse of John: (Borrowed here. I didn't find a better version.) The word »Helle« (»hell«; »Hölle« in modern German) looks pretty like everything else. Link to comment
Member r44… Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 First of all, thanks for the useful feedback. I should be more concise in how I explain what I'm studying. A brief overview of typographical emotion will be discussed leading into the topic of Biblical typography and why it's important. Do typical reading typefaces (those built for legibility) differ enough to produce any substantial psychological response? If so, in a book as important as the Bible, why do we continue to put cost over reader response? (I'm using Leeuwen's "Typographical Meaning" as a basic approach.) Lastly, I'd like to explore experimental typographical layout and see if it's a valid approach to the Bible. Link to comment
Member r44… Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Also, when I say experimental, I'm referring to the possibility of setting certain portions in different typefaces, based on their subject - much like the "Luther Legend" referred to on this post. (thanks oprion for bringing that up) Link to comment
Member r44… Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Check out http://www.waldenfont.com/downloads/gbpmanual.pdf The third page, bottom of fourth paragraph mentions this. Great find oprion! Link to comment
Member opr… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 @schickele Supposedly, It was mentioned somewhere by Albert Kapr. I'll try to find the quote (if it indeed exists). Link to comment
Member Cri… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'll try to find the quote (if it indeed exists). What I have read (on the Spanish translation of Febvre and Martin, L’Apparition du Livre, chapter 3) is that the first writings of Luther were published with Roman letters, but he decided to switch to Blackletter when he needed to talk to his countrymen. A not-so-unrelated story: Spaniard scribes preferred Blackletter if they were writing in Spanish, but Roman if they were writing in Latin (don’t remember my source, though). And I have seen some examples of pages in Roman using Blackletter for emphasis, as we use Italics nowadays. Link to comment
Member opr… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 And I have seen some examples of pages in Roman using Blackletter for emphasis, as we use Italics nowadays. Tschichold gives an example of a page from "Ausfuhrlichen lateinischen Sprachlehre. Leipzig, 1782" where the main text was set in Fraktur, German translations were in Schwabacher, and Latin (including Latin roots in german words) rendered in Antiqua. Link to comment
Member dez… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Through out most history prior to the modern era, Bibles were set in the writing style or type available to Bible producers and approved by client authority. Today, we have hundreds of thousands of options but most Bibles are just printed in the most traditional ways because that is what is expected. That also makes some sense since the words (barring new translations) are the same as they were for generations. I would imagine that if there were enough interest in a more modern typographical presentation, that someone could do it and not lose money by printing it. I think you need to ask who might be such an audience for the Bible and count heads to see if it is worth printing? If your purpose is not that of fulfilling a need of readers but fulfilling a desire of producer, then just do it and put it on one of the "on demand" publishing places. You will get what you crave and if enough others like what you have done, you will recoup your losses. Otherwise, approach assorted Christian groups to see what interest may exist? Link to comment
Member qua… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It wouldn't surprise me if the version of the "Luther Legend" contained in that .PDF about Fraktur were true. Many unusual versions of the Bible have been published; one that used an "Antiqua" initial letter to begin a chapter (or verse) about a negative topic would not be surprising given that Fraktur was identified with Lutheranism, and Roman types with its rival, Roman Catholicism. Ah: Google has brought me to the truth. A New History of German Literature by Judith Ryan and Hans Ulrich Gumbrecht reveals: "In the revised German Bible of 1541, Röhrer introduced a system of setting some words in Antiqua, others all in upper-case Fracture, and the rest in ordinary mixed Fraktur. In an afterword, Röhrer explains that whenever scripture speaks of Christ, it is set in upper-case Fraktur, whereas passages referring to evil or death are set in Antiqua." Link to comment
Member Jam… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 > Few people still study the bible by sitting down at a > desk with a twenty-pound bible in front of them. Yep. While there's certainly a market for fancy Bibles for church pulpits, presentation copies, etc, most folks want something practical and portable. I've got 5 or 6 Bibles in my house, but the one I use most often is an iPad Bible app which let's me switch instantly between translations. Link to comment
Member dez… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'll bet the iPad version is searchable, too, James? Seems like a good idea if you are looking for a particular quote but forgot the specific citation. I assume everyone does not know "chapter and verse" :-) Link to comment
Member opr… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 @John And there it is on the page of the Apocalypse! http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3865308793_845479b5d3_o.jpg Link to comment
Member Jos… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 On the topic of experimental bible typography — look up the "Revolve" bible. Printed under the title "Revolve," it is, as I understand it, the complete bible designed in the style of a teen girl fashion magazine, to appeal to ... you guessed it. Josh Link to comment
Member Jam… Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 >I'll bet the iPad version is searchable, too, James? Yep, it's searchable, can switch instantly between translations and multiple languages, change the font size, bookmark passages, take notes, it has daily reading plans, etc. It's pretty nifty. Link to comment
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