Isn't this just modified Papyrus?...

[Member sol…]

Mike: "Shouldn’t Chris Costello be notified?"

For my part, an e-mail's been sent. Add your voice independently if you wish. There's contact info on his website (the URL for which was mentioned in the original posting above).

[Member fi…]

This thread delivers.

[Member chr…]

Hi Guys… Chris Costello here,

Thanks for the emails. I suppose now is a good time to chime in.

This is not new. Check out my Rouge’s Gallery of Type Design Thieves:

Rip-off: Parchment “by Rick Mueller”
http://www.fontspace.com/rick-mueller/parchment-mf
100% counterfeit free font…why?

Rip-off: Fidelma, “Designed by Patricia Lillie”: http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/lillie/fidelma/
A complete bastardization of Papyrus that retains only wisps of the original feel.

Rip-off: Ereshkigal “Designed by David Nalle” and sold by Scriptorium http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/scriptorium/ereshkigal/
See below for more of David’s original work…

Original design by Chris Costello: Blackstone: http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/chriscostello/blackstone/
During my “Jagged Edge Period 1983-88” :)

Rip-off: Gaiseric, “Designed by David Nalle” and sold by Scriptorium http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/scriptorium/gaiseric/

Mr. David Bergsland has now earned himself a place of honor as the most recent member of this fellowship.

With the love/hate thing that swirls around Papyrus set aside, the font is still, without question, a completely unique and original design… there is nothing else like it in the world, except for these poorly executed fakes. I used no references, “tracings” or other crutches to create it… Papyrus simply came forth from a flurry of hand-drawn sketches (I still have the original doodles). As a professional illustrator and graphic designer, I really consider myself an amateur font designer. I do not have many fonts available for sale and I am just learning FontLab. It just so happens that the few fonts I have designed turned out to be hot sellers and are thus widely imitated. With the exception of Letterpress Text (a respectful tribute to the classics), every font that I have created is entirely original.

“Artichoke”? Please, David… I’m just not flattered anymore. This is an argument that has angered true type designers since the advent of the computer and the accessibility of font software to just about anybody. You obviously input Papyrus, moved a few points here, a few transformations there and output “Artichoke”. Papyrus, like any original font design, does not need to be improved… it is pretty much what the designer intended it to be and does not require the touch of an “old hack” “to make it more readable, and easier to use”. If you feel the need to customize it for your own use that’s fine, but repackaging it and selling it under a different name is cheap, opportunistic and wrong.

But it’s not the money issue that bothers me. I sold the rights to market Papyrus to ITC a long time ago and my royalty payments are modest. You are siphoning more of their revenue than mine, and I have informed them of your actions. What bothers me and many others is that you find this practice of “tracing”, “deriving” or otherwise copying other peoples work then passing it of as your own to be perfectly fine. Is this what you teach to your students? Do you address this subject in your books?

“Artichoke started with adding a roughened, light edge to the character widths of my popular humanist sans font families.”

Were you implying that you added the rough edges or are you giving me credit for the rough edges I created on the original?

“I was trying to create the light, airy feel of hand-scribed letters on a rough natural surface.”

Really? I’m sorry if I did I not do a good enough job creating the light, airy feel the first time around.

"I did spend a ridiculous amount of time on it. Well over a hundred hours, as I recall."

Why in the world would anyone spend this much time being redundant? Could the answer be found in the following quote:

“David started to design fonts for sale rather than for self entertainment.”

Somebody also mentioned earlier that 100 hours is nothing for a true type designer. Very true! I spent months handcrafting the original, and have spent countless hours digitizing my other hand-drawn fonts. You have done nothing here worthy of respect. There is not much I can do legally to stop you from what you are doing, but ethically speaking, you need to stop selling “Artichoke” and simply keep it for your own use.

I confronted the “designer” of “Fidelma” and she swore up and down it was not a rip-off. You cannot argue with someone who does not hold on to reason. I respectfully asked David Nalle to stop selling “Ereshkigal” and “Gaiseric” but got no reply. Sadly, this issue of stealing intellectual property speaks volumes about the “Something-for-Nothing” culture that has been cultivated by the Baby Boomers over the past three decades. As I segue into social commentary mode, check out this quote from a charged and very revealing article below:

“This generation lacks self control, morals, a work ethic, and savings ethic. Based on the recent actions of our government and corporate leaders, we seem to lack any ethics at all.”

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=16602

I’ll leave it at that. This is a font forum. My rants on pop culture, U.S. foreign policy, the economy and politics can be found elsewhere.

If you are going to call yourself a designer, then design… don’t simply imitate, then profit from the hard work of others.

[Member dez…]

Bravo, Chris Costello!

While I readily admit that I am not fond of your typeface I also fervently state that it is truly yours and should not be open to thieves and pirates to pretend is theirs. I hope that Bergsland willingly removes his atrocious pirated version from sale or distribution.
You are right, too many people think that because something is easy to steal that they somehow are granted license to do so.

ChrisL

[Member Nic…]

Well said, Mr Costello.

[Member Sup…]

Chris Costello thank you! I appreciate your sentiments.

While Papyrus may be over used. It is still original. If someone wanted to make a new spin off it why not consult the original designer? But no, Bergsland strident attitude did not make room for the high road.

Yes, ethic and morals have gone down the tubes. Unfortunately its not limited to the indies either- its even prevalent at the corporate level.

Fake:
http://www.linotype.com/304434/ginkgo-family.html

Real:
http://www.underware.nl/site2/index.php?id1=dolly&id2=roman

People that work with type and appreciate the real thing will never go for these fakes. Its really so sad for the forgers because their reputations get tarnish and then they have not a whole lot left over in the end. Sad for them.

Mike :-)

CAN’T WE JUST KEEP IT REAL?

[Member twa…]

I would like to inform you that MyFonts has removed the Artichoke font from sale, further steps pending. Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention and for your valuable input.

Regards,
Adam Twardoch
MyFonts typographic consultant

[Member sol…]

That's a solid step in the right direction. Let's hope MyFonts also takes into consideration Chris Costello's remarks on the other rip-offs of his work that are presently being sold through MyFonts. I think his comments should be construed as a clear complaint.

If not, why not consider this posting of mine a complaint? After all, Adam, you said it: "we at MyFonts always review cases immediately whenever there is a complaint (no matter whether the complaint came from the party who claims that their rights have been infringed, or from someone else)."

In my view, action on such obvious cases can only work to further enhance the standing of MyFonts among the broader community of designers / vendors.

Let's all hope for a quick, equitable resolution of this particular situation.

[Member ala…]

All seriousness aside, along with an indesign tutorial where he recommends vertically and horizontally scaling type because "otherwise the words will seem to disappear" (http://bergsland.org/pneumatika/indesigntutorials/1-indesign.html), does anyone not find this list of 'party supplies' to be a little bizarre?

http://bergsland.org/pneumatika/indesigntutorials/3-indesign.html

[Member Jen…]

does anyone not find this list of ’party supplies’ to be a little bizarre?

Yup, I supposed even the US had adopted the Metric System by now :)

[Member fre…]

Well, not that it takes great effort, but someone sure knows how to party harder than me.

[Member Wil…]

I am delighted to see this, Adam.

I hope this will be a continuing policy, and that it will mark some new professional standards on this issue of copying. Not law, but professional standards.

I do think that the cases you mentioned are arguably either quite different from this case, or are now moot.

First of all, with the consolidation of Monotype and Linotype, many of the most egregious copying cases, such as Arial and Helvetica, are now moot, as they have common ownership.

As to Bitstream, those faces were a product of the anarchy of the initial period of change to a new technology. As I understand it, the leader of the type division of Linotype was fired, and not allowed to digitize those faces, some of which he had directed development of. He and others founded Bitstream, the first digital typefoundry, and digitized what had been hot metal faces, most of them classics by long dead designers. Then Linotype did their own versions. And Bitstream is now giving proper credit, as I understand it.

I really don't think Myriad vs Frutiger is in the same class as these. Myriad is heavily indebted to Frutiger, but it is a systematically thought out new design, with new terminals and curves, a softer aesthetic, and new italics and condensed versions.

In any case, these issues were "litigated" in the court of public opinion before MyFonts came into existence, so it is understandable that MyFonts wouldn't take up these issues. And, of course, they are part of Bitstream.

The kind of copying and clumsy manipulation that this case represents really shouldn't get over the bar at MyFonts. I hope your decision here sets a policy that even if legal such clearly unethical practices won't be allowed to run rampant at what I suppose is the leading reseller of fonts.

[Member Ben…]

>he recommends vertically and horizontally scaling type

That explains the bad job he's done condensing the proportions of Papyrus without looking at the stroke widths and contrast

[Member Mis…]

Mike there are others fonts much more similar to Dolly than that.

[Member Sup…]

Hi Tiff:

Really cause’ very little looks modified from the original Dolly. The upswung ear on the letter g looks reduced from Dolly’s bold. He changed the a and made a few other touches but its resounding Dolly.

What other faces are close to the Dolly than this Ginkgo?

Mikey :-)

[Member Ber…]

Hi Chris, nice to get some sense of the guy who did Papyrus. Contrary to a lot of others I really like P — it is an original. Eight or nine years ago (somewhere during mayor relationship number 2) I designed an identity for a local restaurant with P. Never got paid, because they went back on the deal. But — I still see P a lot where I am, so if you would like to start a Hall of Fame on your site (or a Hall of Sh…) I would gladly take some pictures and mail them to you,

.. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

[Member Ber…]

Tiff, there are a lot of Dollies around nowadays — it’s like those skinny jeans. One brands ignites a lot of others. And presto: you get to look at a lot of slightly overweight bare mids. Or worse (I try avoid my eyes and have seen a lot of sky the last couple of years). Thank Obama, my GF has a good sense of fashion. she prefers highwaisted jeans. BTW he is a brilliant photographer.

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

[Member Sup…]

Dederon what else?

[Member sol…]

For those who might not have noticed, not only is "Artichoke" now removed from MyFonts and Fonts.com, but also Mr. Bergsland has removed it from his site. Positive stuff all ... if it's not mere interim measures or a tactical eyewash. Watch and pray, as it were.

[Member Jam…]

Thanks Adam and thank you solfeggio for the report. Much appreciated.

I think David Bergsland has a conscience and we should extend to him the kind of respect and good will we would expect to be extended to ourselves. I call upon typophilers to show restraint in the following ways:
* stop hammering David now, this one is over
* give David a second chance, so to speak
* stop calling him "Mr. Bergsland" because it's a trite form of put-down. He has a name you know: David.

David, if you're still reading please rest assured I bear no on-going animosity towards you. You've done the right thing by us your peers, and I thank you for cooperating and listening to reason.

Bert, and typophilers in general—"Tiff" likes to be called "Tiffany", thank you.

j a m e s

[Member sol…]

Minor obiter: stop calling him “Mr. Bergsland” because it’s a trite form of put-down. It was never intended as as such on my part. Instead, it's merely a matter of being polite. To be clear, consider the evenhandedness: in private correspondence I have addressed Mr. Costello as "Mr. Costello," not as "Chris," even though I doubt he'd mind the informality.

Some folks regard the overly-casual use of first names as a status leveler, while others do not view it so. Similarly, "Mr." as an honorific oughn't be read mal fide as snide.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, after all, though other times they're loaded. ;)

Best regards,
Ernie
(by which name you may all freely call me)

[Member Mis…]

I'm not trying to start a hunt for Dolly look-a-likes. I'm simply saying the design of Dolly is very good and it doesn't surprise me that there aren't more homages. (And derivatives.)

[Member Sup…]

Tiffany> alrighty then

Well, I’m glad I posted this thread. We all need correction sometimes in our life. I’m pretty sure David has learned his lesson (albeit in a public forum). Copying someone else’s work can only lead to embarrassment, even dishonor.

I look forward to original productions of his. David can only get better as a designer from this point.

Like James said, this is over.

I thank everyone for their participation and keeping their comments above-board.

Mike Diaz :-)

[Member pau…]

I’m not trying to start a hunt for Dolly look-a-likes.

This funny, i'll tell you why in another thread.

[Member Si_…]

>Like James said, this is over.

Don't jinx the thread! When people say that things tend to spin up to the low 200's.